1 00:00:00,719 --> 00:00:05,879 Adam Curry: On casting 2.0 For April 14 2023, episode 129 We 2 00:00:05,879 --> 00:00:11,279 got Turkish punk. Hello, everybody Friday once again time 3 00:00:11,279 --> 00:00:15,359 for the official board meeting of podcasting. 2.0. Yes, we are 4 00:00:15,359 --> 00:00:19,439 the only podcast boardroom with music and it's hard. Everything 5 00:00:19,439 --> 00:00:23,279 happened at podcast index.org and namespace and of course, all 6 00:00:23,279 --> 00:00:26,129 the shenanigans and says are running at podcast index dot 7 00:00:26,129 --> 00:00:28,319 social. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill 8 00:00:28,319 --> 00:00:32,099 Country. And in Alabama, the man who rubs your pub key right into 9 00:00:32,099 --> 00:00:34,619 a chat. Say hello to my friend on the other end, ladies and 10 00:00:34,619 --> 00:00:35,909 gentlemen, Mr. Dave 11 00:00:35,910 --> 00:00:39,540 Dave Jones: Jones didn't know where you're going with that. 12 00:00:40,380 --> 00:00:40,920 Like it 13 00:00:41,610 --> 00:00:43,560 Adam Curry: like it? Well, that's what you've been doing. 14 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:46,740 You've been like, making chaps and robbing pub keys into it. 15 00:00:46,740 --> 00:00:48,150 And I guess, 16 00:00:48,810 --> 00:00:54,090 Dave Jones: read have done Yes. I was terrified on the way home 17 00:00:54,090 --> 00:00:58,230 that like our guests today we've tried to skip the third time we 18 00:00:58,230 --> 00:01:01,410 tried to schedule a miss finally worked. And I was like, I 19 00:01:01,410 --> 00:01:03,270 thought oh my god, I'm gonna have a flat tire on the way 20 00:01:03,270 --> 00:01:03,450 home. 21 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:05,700 Adam Curry: I was waiting for anything to happen. So I told 22 00:01:05,700 --> 00:01:08,640 him, I said, you know, this third time, so it's your hope 23 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:09,690 it's a charm. But 24 00:01:10,710 --> 00:01:14,370 Dave Jones: I mean, for context, we I don't think we've in the 25 00:01:14,370 --> 00:01:17,220 entire history of the show, which was two and a half years 26 00:01:17,220 --> 00:01:21,120 now. Yeah, move it up on three. Yeah, yeah. entire history of 27 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:26,400 the show. I think we've had one problem with a guest. And it was 28 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,220 within enough time to where we could actually fix it and make 29 00:01:29,220 --> 00:01:36,180 it work now. These guests, we we've had to reschedule twice 30 00:01:36,180 --> 00:01:40,080 for once for like, you know, weather and the other one 31 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:41,340 because I screwed it up. And 32 00:01:41,670 --> 00:01:45,870 Adam Curry: then the third time because I had to have my my, my 33 00:01:45,870 --> 00:01:50,370 mouth looked at again. Alright, well, we'll get to them 34 00:01:50,370 --> 00:01:53,910 momentarily. First of all, we're lit. This is the new thing all 35 00:01:53,910 --> 00:01:56,130 the kids are doing. Everyone's talking about it being lit what 36 00:01:56,130 --> 00:02:02,610 you want with your podcast. Now, besides pod verse, curio caster, 37 00:02:02,700 --> 00:02:08,400 podcast addict, podcast guru joins the crowd, you got a 38 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:14,460 successful test yesterday tweeted me that no agenda had 39 00:02:14,460 --> 00:02:19,710 worked. So that's good. And the guru? Yeah. The guru. Exactly. 40 00:02:21,030 --> 00:02:25,020 And I was listening, I think it was, was it podcast weekly 41 00:02:25,020 --> 00:02:28,620 review, talking about? Well, you know, it's really a good thing 42 00:02:28,620 --> 00:02:32,670 doing these live shows. Because, you know, it's really only a not 43 00:02:32,670 --> 00:02:37,320 a lot of people listen. And now it was maybe I didn't understand 44 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:42,210 the context of what I was doing. But I would say the point is, 45 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,840 again, look at just looking at the at the daily and weekly 46 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:51,000 statistics, when you have a live show, and it's in and you're 47 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:55,140 doing it in a certain way, which is very interactive with the 48 00:02:55,140 --> 00:02:59,430 chat that you have going on. I mean, it's a real value 49 00:02:59,430 --> 00:03:05,070 receiving mechanism. It's I mean, we see pod verse outpace 50 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:10,440 fountain on SAT totals regularly, because shows are 51 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:14,790 doing it was it was Tonda, lit. Wednesday, he must have been 52 00:03:14,790 --> 00:03:15,240 lit, so 53 00:03:17,100 --> 00:03:18,990 Dave Jones: I boosted in Latvia. So I mean, 54 00:03:19,140 --> 00:03:21,300 Adam Curry: this kind of solidifies the whole idea that 55 00:03:21,300 --> 00:03:23,940 you don't need to be number one, you don't need to be on the 56 00:03:23,940 --> 00:03:29,040 chart. You don't even need to be in Apple, or orange on Spotify. 57 00:03:29,460 --> 00:03:32,430 You know, you just need to have your, your community, your 58 00:03:32,430 --> 00:03:37,920 audience, your group, sitting around participating. And and I 59 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:41,250 think, I don't think podcasts guru and podcast addict. No, 60 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:43,230 they don't have value for value built in. Do they're 61 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,730 Dave Jones: not Yeah. It's kind 62 00:03:47,730 --> 00:03:51,900 Adam Curry: of a prerequisite for lit these days. Part of the 63 00:03:51,900 --> 00:03:56,760 fun. I mean, anybody can listen to a show live. And it's great 64 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:00,030 that these apps are doing it. But I guarantee you listeners 65 00:04:00,030 --> 00:04:02,130 want to join in because boosting is fun. 66 00:04:04,950 --> 00:04:07,770 Dave Jones: is I don't want to blow anybody's cover. There's 67 00:04:07,770 --> 00:04:11,520 some there. Somebody there's another there's another app with 68 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,580 Donald wants to steal their thunder. But there's another app 69 00:04:14,580 --> 00:04:17,160 with the Wii for free come in this this lit enabled. 70 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:22,200 Adam Curry: Know, the pod stage has secret information. 71 00:04:23,460 --> 00:04:26,340 Dave Jones: I hate doing that crap, but it's very nice. That I 72 00:04:26,340 --> 00:04:28,110 don't want to I don't want to like you know, let the cat out 73 00:04:28,110 --> 00:04:31,470 of the bag before the developers know I'm ready. No, I'm sure 74 00:04:31,470 --> 00:04:32,790 that it's on the way that 75 00:04:33,029 --> 00:04:35,459 Adam Curry: they're giving the exclusive to podcast Business 76 00:04:35,459 --> 00:04:36,329 Journal weekly. 77 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:40,470 Dave Jones: review, review. 78 00:04:41,790 --> 00:04:43,470 Adam Curry: Podcast Business Journal, isn't it? Isn't that 79 00:04:43,470 --> 00:04:47,520 the new the new newsletter really? revamped? 80 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:51,960 Dave Jones: It didn't did it? Am I missing something or did is 81 00:04:51,990 --> 00:04:54,030 sounds profitable still part of 82 00:04:54,239 --> 00:04:56,189 Adam Curry: I have no I've never understood the relationship 83 00:04:56,219 --> 00:05:00,989 never I don't relationship No. Okay. Yeah, what are currently 84 00:05:01,679 --> 00:05:11,699 12,000 Oh shoot and just lost the number 12,985 podcasts are 85 00:05:11,729 --> 00:05:18,089 value for value enabled almost 13,000. Then remember to help 86 00:05:18,089 --> 00:05:21,779 people onboard because you can onboard in so many places now. 87 00:05:21,809 --> 00:05:27,509 podcaster wallet.com. Contracts dot app fountain in the app 88 00:05:27,509 --> 00:05:31,919 itself. LB Dalbec. You Oh, yes, right. You can onboard through 89 00:05:31,919 --> 00:05:35,219 Alby as a good one. Do we know who's on Oh, and of course, 90 00:05:37,709 --> 00:05:38,729 what's Brian's? 91 00:05:41,399 --> 00:05:44,669 Dave Jones: The 3333 speaking, you cannot avoid the three wave 92 00:05:44,669 --> 00:05:45,089 Lake 93 00:05:45,269 --> 00:05:48,899 Adam Curry: wave wave like, oh my god, I just, it's really 94 00:05:48,899 --> 00:05:51,839 getting exciting. And I just got to talk about two things. First 95 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:55,229 of all, Steven B's split kit is what I'm calling it. 96 00:05:55,860 --> 00:05:59,490 Dave Jones: Oh, I like that. Can you please explain this to me? 97 00:05:59,490 --> 00:06:03,750 Because I've been there's there was a lot of stuff that happened 98 00:06:03,750 --> 00:06:07,260 this week. And I could not keep track of all of it. And I saw it 99 00:06:07,260 --> 00:06:09,870 and I think I understand it, but it would be really helpful if 100 00:06:09,870 --> 00:06:10,920 you tell me what it does. 101 00:06:10,950 --> 00:06:14,220 Adam Curry: Yeah, so now I'm not quite sure how it works with 102 00:06:14,250 --> 00:06:19,080 everything or not. But currently, you can see yo to 103 00:06:19,110 --> 00:06:24,990 Eldon gar, I like split kit but E L d i n g a r.com. 104 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:27,060 Dave Jones: That sounds like a Norse god. 105 00:06:27,180 --> 00:06:30,720 Adam Curry: I think it is. I think it is. Elgin Gar elding 106 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,390 God Okay, we're gonna remember it now Eldon Garth, the split 107 00:06:33,390 --> 00:06:41,460 kid. And excuse me. That was disgusting. am 58 Oh man 108 00:06:41,460 --> 00:06:47,700 syndrome. And so you you connect it to I think currently it works 109 00:06:47,700 --> 00:06:51,270 with get Alby till you authorize it with get Alby in your 110 00:06:51,270 --> 00:06:58,230 browser. And then you can create a QR code or link or at the same 111 00:06:58,230 --> 00:07:03,120 time for a boost and splits for anything you want. So I can 112 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,900 just, I could just create a bunch of let's say, I'm with my 113 00:07:06,900 --> 00:07:12,060 band. I'm on stage. And I'm gonna put a QR code up there. 114 00:07:12,060 --> 00:07:14,730 And, you know, we got we got just the band there. And we 115 00:07:14,730 --> 00:07:18,660 don't have a podcast and we may not have anything on value for 116 00:07:18,660 --> 00:07:23,340 value per se. But then you can set the set the split set the 117 00:07:23,340 --> 00:07:27,030 wallets, and then and then you got a webpage. And that webpage 118 00:07:27,060 --> 00:07:30,810 is the QR code and alternatively a link and you and you hit the 119 00:07:30,810 --> 00:07:33,420 boost button and it gives you the option you got to connect it 120 00:07:33,420 --> 00:07:36,240 to your wallet, which in this case is get Alby I think they're 121 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,910 also going to connect it to the fountain wallet, which will be 122 00:07:38,910 --> 00:07:43,500 Zebedee, and I presume more. I'm not quite sure how many wallets 123 00:07:43,500 --> 00:07:48,390 it will support. And then and then you basically hit boost, 124 00:07:48,420 --> 00:07:51,960 you fill in your name, the amount the message for booster 125 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:56,130 gram, and it does all the splits and sends it so it's a split kit 126 00:07:56,130 --> 00:07:57,990 for any for any purpose really. 127 00:07:58,950 --> 00:08:02,370 Dave Jones: So yeah, I mean, this. Yeah, this any any 128 00:08:02,370 --> 00:08:06,570 purpose. I mean, it's generic. So you could do you know, 129 00:08:06,630 --> 00:08:08,490 charitable stuff. Anything? 130 00:08:08,490 --> 00:08:11,070 Adam Curry: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's. 131 00:08:11,550 --> 00:08:14,010 Dave Jones: So you basically you put you put in all your splits 132 00:08:14,010 --> 00:08:15,480 and it just spits out a QR code. 133 00:08:16,709 --> 00:08:19,349 Adam Curry: And you can even put an image in there. I think you 134 00:08:19,349 --> 00:08:19,949 do other stuff 135 00:08:19,950 --> 00:08:22,260 Michael Rhee: like that. Isn't that the prism? 136 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:27,420 Adam Curry: It's well, it's like the prism. Yeah. But it's not 137 00:08:27,420 --> 00:08:28,800 the prism. I think 138 00:08:28,799 --> 00:08:31,319 Dave Jones: the idea of the prism is that that that's deeper 139 00:08:31,319 --> 00:08:34,139 down the stack at the protocol level. But I mean, like this is 140 00:08:34,139 --> 00:08:34,379 a 141 00:08:34,830 --> 00:08:37,890 Adam Curry: invertible here's what's cool, because I posted a 142 00:08:37,890 --> 00:08:42,030 QR code on noster just assumed people would do I mean, you 143 00:08:42,030 --> 00:08:50,400 posted a QR code and Nasir people go oh, must must must 144 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:55,320 look at this. And people were immediately using it. And so I 145 00:08:55,680 --> 00:08:59,040 Dave Jones: said the prison prison, the prison 146 00:08:59,940 --> 00:09:03,810 Adam Curry: although that's the show title the prison. So 147 00:09:03,810 --> 00:09:06,960 immediately people were using it on noster and the and you also 148 00:09:06,990 --> 00:09:11,610 get the little confetti and all that and, and I think I presume 149 00:09:11,610 --> 00:09:14,430 that they had their nostro accounts hooked up to their get 150 00:09:14,430 --> 00:09:17,580 Alby which a lot of people have and also walled off Satoshi, 151 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:21,450 which and Waller Satoshi is a custodial thing. 152 00:09:22,740 --> 00:09:26,010 Dave Jones: I think it has my understanding is that they have 153 00:09:26,010 --> 00:09:30,600 a custom custodial component like component they both I think 154 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,600 it's I think it can be either non custodial or custodial. 155 00:09:33,660 --> 00:09:36,990 Okay. But I mean, everybody talks about it as if they have a 156 00:09:36,990 --> 00:09:39,330 custodial service, but I've never used it. That's yeah. 157 00:09:39,330 --> 00:09:42,780 Adam Curry: Which sounds like to me as well. Which of course, is 158 00:09:42,810 --> 00:09:46,950 it's kind of interesting to see how the the core people who were 159 00:09:46,980 --> 00:09:50,010 there I think a lot of the people were yelling loudly when 160 00:09:50,550 --> 00:09:54,120 lightning was really starting to become, you know, people were 161 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,510 using Lightning wallets that were custodial. This is not the 162 00:09:57,510 --> 00:10:01,170 way to go. We need to have you know Run runs your own node, 163 00:10:01,170 --> 00:10:04,980 your own node. And now we're not sure like who cares? 164 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:11,130 Dave Jones: Pretty much. Yeah, it's funny how the all the all 165 00:10:11,130 --> 00:10:13,920 the dogma goes away once you have, you know, once you catch 166 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:14,970 the vibe, 167 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:17,550 Adam Curry: the wave Yeah, exactly. Well, I 168 00:10:17,550 --> 00:10:20,160 Dave Jones: mean, this never made a ton of sense to me 169 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:23,430 anyway, because there's nothing wrong with having a custodial 170 00:10:23,430 --> 00:10:27,060 wallet that just holds 100 bucks or less. And yeah, 171 00:10:27,780 --> 00:10:30,060 Adam Curry: as long as you have a, you know, a noncustodial 172 00:10:30,060 --> 00:10:31,320 solution? Absolutely. 173 00:10:31,410 --> 00:10:32,970 Dave Jones: You just sweep it out. I mean, it's not like you 174 00:10:32,970 --> 00:10:34,590 have to keep your life savings in there. 175 00:10:35,220 --> 00:10:38,160 Adam Curry: And yeah, exact sweep it up. But also, I like, I 176 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:44,430 use breeze a lot as like a real functional wallet. You know, it 177 00:10:44,430 --> 00:10:46,890 doesn't integrate with well actually does integrate with 178 00:10:46,890 --> 00:10:51,120 most things. But for instance, with a scratch scan the QR code, 179 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:56,490 with my breeze wallet for the, for the split, kit, Elden gar, 180 00:10:56,970 --> 00:10:59,010 and it's, uh, do you want to open this URL, which I already 181 00:10:59,010 --> 00:11:01,770 thought was kind of cool, and open the URL, just open up, you 182 00:11:01,770 --> 00:11:07,800 know, basically a web browser connected to get Alby. So, but 183 00:11:08,070 --> 00:11:11,460 my point being is, like, when I when I see X amount of SATs in 184 00:11:11,460 --> 00:11:15,450 my might get lb, I usually pull it into my breeze wallet, which 185 00:11:15,450 --> 00:11:18,630 I used to buy stuff, you know, I use that to buy B from K and C 186 00:11:18,630 --> 00:11:23,220 cattle. And, you know, so I have probably $500 in there. And all 187 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:27,450 my bitcoin, of course, is in cold storage. But yeah, I mean, 188 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:30,780 it's all just education. I agree with you. It's not it's not out 189 00:11:30,780 --> 00:11:34,200 there. But of course, when the day that get Albie goes down 190 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:37,320 which it will happen. And I don't want to I don't want to 191 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,560 put nastiness on anybody. But you and I know it will happen, 192 00:11:40,830 --> 00:11:43,980 something goes down, nothing stays up forever. But this is 193 00:11:43,980 --> 00:11:47,520 your actual job. You know, you you you keep machines running, 194 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:51,240 and even the machines that the systems you built for me, like 195 00:11:51,270 --> 00:11:55,410 freedom controller, have run for years and years and years. And 196 00:11:55,410 --> 00:11:59,880 still once in a while. It goes down once in a while. But it 197 00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:00,360 usually comes 198 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:03,060 Dave Jones: back to that, by the way, usually comes back I know 199 00:12:03,060 --> 00:12:04,140 what I'll be doing this weekend. 200 00:12:04,740 --> 00:12:07,080 Adam Curry: No usually comes up by itself. I don't have to do 201 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,330 anything. Just there's like some kind of hiccup you have all 202 00:12:09,330 --> 00:12:11,670 kinds you got all kinds of trip wires and stuff. I know what you 203 00:12:11,670 --> 00:12:12,000 do. 204 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:18,810 Dave Jones: It's a it's a it's a design. It's a design choice. I 205 00:12:18,810 --> 00:12:23,400 think we've gotten used to in the broader ecosystem of you 206 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,040 know, like cloud technology, I think we've gotten used to 207 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:31,710 things going down a lot. Because there has there was the get it 208 00:12:31,710 --> 00:12:35,790 out as fast as you can run fast and break things grow, grow, 209 00:12:35,790 --> 00:12:39,690 grow for the VC. And so cut corners will fix it, you know, 210 00:12:39,690 --> 00:12:43,740 we'll fix it in the first patch. Yeah, go ahead and shift. You 211 00:12:43,740 --> 00:12:43,980 know, 212 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:45,780 Adam Curry: we'll fix it in the first patch. 213 00:12:45,929 --> 00:12:47,999 Dave Jones: Yeah, I mean, that's like, that's been the mindset 214 00:12:48,029 --> 00:12:51,779 we've grown used to this mindset for the last 15 years. And so 215 00:12:51,809 --> 00:12:55,649 like, but if you go into something with a slow, sort of 216 00:12:55,649 --> 00:12:59,429 methodical, built, you know, approach to building it, you 217 00:12:59,429 --> 00:13:02,189 don't you don't have to fall victim to a lot of that stuff. 218 00:13:02,220 --> 00:13:04,950 Adam Curry: Well, such as podcasts. index.org, as far as 219 00:13:04,950 --> 00:13:11,430 far as I know. Have we I mean, there's been some slowdowns or 220 00:13:11,430 --> 00:13:14,490 other things when people are attacking us or scraping us but 221 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:16,980 it's been rock solid from day one. 222 00:13:18,090 --> 00:13:21,900 Dave Jones: It the the only thing that is becoming 223 00:13:22,050 --> 00:13:27,030 annoyingly frequent is the five is the 5025021 224 00:13:27,030 --> 00:13:29,040 Adam Curry: so much scraping us. Yeah. 225 00:13:29,580 --> 00:13:33,990 Dave Jones: I don't know if it's the same person that we did some 226 00:13:34,020 --> 00:13:37,320 high volume scrapers start hitting us at like five o'clock 227 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:40,860 in the morning. And it's been predictable. And most of the 228 00:13:40,860 --> 00:13:44,280 time we're able to take it but then sometimes like that'd be 229 00:13:44,310 --> 00:13:47,670 the last one that happened either yesterday morning or the 230 00:13:47,670 --> 00:13:53,550 day before yesterday there's it was down for about half an hour, 231 00:13:53,940 --> 00:14:01,320 giving five oh twos. And the volume of this of this scraper 232 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:05,670 was like it was something like a million is like 1.2 million 233 00:14:05,670 --> 00:14:08,610 requests in 20 minutes. 234 00:14:09,090 --> 00:14:11,520 Adam Curry: Now, is that a scraper or is that just a DDOS 235 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:16,950 at that point? Well yeah, it's a 236 00:14:18,660 --> 00:14:22,590 Dave Jones: yes an accidental denial service because the they 237 00:14:22,590 --> 00:14:25,350 were legitimately trying to try and scrape the database. 238 00:14:25,650 --> 00:14:27,690 Adam Curry: But the point is, it's freely available 239 00:14:27,690 --> 00:14:31,050 douchebags. You can go download it, we make it available for 240 00:14:31,050 --> 00:14:34,320 free, and what are they scraping just to stop this available for 241 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:35,460 free or something? Yeah, something 242 00:14:35,820 --> 00:14:37,950 Dave Jones: no the stuff that's available for free they because 243 00:14:37,950 --> 00:14:43,110 they're morons. But the thing that so what's kept me from 244 00:14:43,110 --> 00:14:47,340 doing a you know, everything's all about budget constraints. 245 00:14:47,340 --> 00:14:52,650 But what's kept me from doing a rate limiting at the Cloudflare 246 00:14:52,650 --> 00:14:58,920 level is that it's Cloudflare is rate limiting product has always 247 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:04,140 been open ended. So like, it was like a metered product. And it 248 00:15:04,140 --> 00:15:09,240 was, the way that it was the way that they bill for it is that 249 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:13,290 if, if you start getting a rate limit, if you rate limit 250 00:15:13,290 --> 00:15:18,720 somebody, they charge you for every request, that gets rate 251 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:23,880 limited. Whoa. Yeah. So like, you don't get charged for this 252 00:15:23,910 --> 00:15:26,700 stuff that they let pass through. But you would get 253 00:15:26,700 --> 00:15:31,710 charged for every request, a fraction of a cent or something 254 00:15:31,710 --> 00:15:34,320 like that, for every request that got blocked, right times 255 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,900 Adam Curry: a million times a million. Like somebody 256 00:15:36,900 --> 00:15:39,240 Dave Jones: could just like, you, basically, you're giving, 257 00:15:39,330 --> 00:15:41,730 you're just handing your wallet to somebody else and saying, 258 00:15:41,730 --> 00:15:45,060 Please don't hurt me to best. Yeah, and we can't do it was 259 00:15:45,060 --> 00:15:48,180 never even an option. So now they have this unmetered thing 260 00:15:48,180 --> 00:15:52,500 that is supposed to based on my understanding, I think we get 261 00:15:52,500 --> 00:15:55,860 it, I think we are able to use it without these scary overage 262 00:15:55,860 --> 00:15:59,490 charges. So I'm gonna give it a shot to try to fix this. Because 263 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:04,140 otherwise I have to write a lot of I have to write a rate 264 00:16:04,140 --> 00:16:07,080 limiter on our side. And I just have never gotten around to 265 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:10,620 doing that every right now. It's a slow, lazy process that 266 00:16:10,620 --> 00:16:14,070 happens after the fact looking at logs. It's not an instant 267 00:16:14,070 --> 00:16:17,370 thing. And so I would have to, you know, write a Redis base, 268 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,430 you know, caching rate limiter, and I just don't want it. Yeah, 269 00:16:20,430 --> 00:16:21,540 I'd rather not do that. 270 00:16:21,690 --> 00:16:25,050 Adam Curry: I hear you know, what was here. So here's the 271 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:27,570 here's where it gets nasty, which so no agenda, we have our 272 00:16:27,570 --> 00:16:31,680 own cloud of servers, which we just had historically, for, you 273 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:36,120 know, at least 1314 years, probably. Which voice Zero has 274 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:40,890 been managing. And we got DDoS real hard the other day. And it 275 00:16:40,890 --> 00:16:44,790 was, yeah, the screen? Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, we go the 276 00:16:44,790 --> 00:16:47,700 donation segment. Oh, I'll show these guys. They're gonna ask 277 00:16:47,700 --> 00:16:53,400 for donations. And, and in the process, somehow, one of the 278 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:58,170 servers the cooling fans blew. I don't know if it Oh, crap. So 279 00:16:58,170 --> 00:17:03,630 that machine went down. But then when I uploaded the show, you 280 00:17:03,630 --> 00:17:07,380 know, it has to replicate across across all the servers and one 281 00:17:07,380 --> 00:17:11,190 it didn't get didn't hit one. And then and then man, when you 282 00:17:11,190 --> 00:17:15,420 get, you know, a portion of the audience is just getting 404. 283 00:17:16,050 --> 00:17:20,700 But that's not how they respond to it. They're like, why didn't 284 00:17:20,700 --> 00:17:28,140 you upload to Apple? You know, and it's, the pod verse sucks, 285 00:17:28,170 --> 00:17:32,400 like, no, no, no, no, it's just no way. It's it's horrible. I 286 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,550 really, it's so but when things go wrong with podcasting, with 287 00:17:35,550 --> 00:17:41,100 downloads, it go, it's always bad. It's always always bad. 288 00:17:42,120 --> 00:17:43,800 Dave Jones: That people are so patient. 289 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,730 Adam Curry: I know. And we appreciate their patience. 290 00:17:48,300 --> 00:17:51,450 Before we bring in our guests. I'd love to understand what 291 00:17:51,450 --> 00:17:53,640 you're doing with chat if you're ready to talk about it. 292 00:17:54,570 --> 00:17:57,210 Dave Jones: Oh, well, I mean, I don't even have to just talk 293 00:17:57,210 --> 00:17:58,980 about it. I can show you. You could show me. 294 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:03,930 Adam Curry: What am I going to? I'm going to 295 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,240 Dave Jones: let me let me signal you this. 296 00:18:07,620 --> 00:18:09,030 Adam Curry: We're not giving anything out on the Agile 297 00:18:09,030 --> 00:18:12,690 secret? Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't give it to them. Let 298 00:18:12,690 --> 00:18:18,450 me see. Yes. All right. Oh, who do you want to be? Nancy? 299 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,830 Dave Jones: Yeah. I would like I would I would like to 300 00:18:23,370 --> 00:18:25,800 Adam Curry: let me. Okay. What are we looking at? What are we 301 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:27,390 looking at here? Tell me what's going on here? 302 00:18:27,570 --> 00:18:30,600 Dave Jones: No. Well, I think is interesting. They post this in 303 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:31,860 the chat. Right, here 304 00:18:31,860 --> 00:18:34,650 Adam Curry: we go. Here we go. We're going crazy. I'm honest. 305 00:18:34,710 --> 00:18:36,990 I'm getting a picture of myself here. I'm gonna do it all 306 00:18:36,990 --> 00:18:37,860 professional. 307 00:18:38,970 --> 00:18:42,900 Dave Jones: So like, I guess I'm curious as to what you think of 308 00:18:42,900 --> 00:18:46,020 this of this initial screen before you actually do anything? 309 00:18:46,050 --> 00:18:47,760 Adam Curry: Well, I'd like to, I'd like this right away. 310 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:52,470 Because I understood I put my name Ataman. I chose my my file. 311 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:56,550 Now. But here. Wait, here's a noster thing. That's what oh, 312 00:18:56,550 --> 00:19:00,390 let me let me hit the nostril. Let me see authorized forever. 313 00:19:01,380 --> 00:19:07,950 Okay, wow. Can I change my name here? Or does it have to hurry? 314 00:19:08,699 --> 00:19:10,619 Dave Jones: Well, I mean, if it pulled it in from Noster, it's 315 00:19:10,619 --> 00:19:14,669 going to it's going to pull in your public your public key. 316 00:19:15,300 --> 00:19:17,970 Adam Curry: But I mean, the name I can I can apparently change my 317 00:19:17,970 --> 00:19:21,240 name. Because it says it was all Adam curry underscore. Okay, I'm 318 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:21,810 doing that log 319 00:19:21,810 --> 00:19:29,520 Dave Jones: again. Well, cool. So I don't know. 320 00:19:30,060 --> 00:19:33,240 Adam Curry: There's just a nice, it pulled in my picture. Nice. 321 00:19:33,390 --> 00:19:41,550 It was in my profile picture from nostril. nostril. Okay. All 322 00:19:41,550 --> 00:19:43,890 right. Well, this works. All right. So tell it what are we 323 00:19:43,890 --> 00:19:46,620 looking at here besides the fact that it's a badass chat? Wait, 324 00:19:46,830 --> 00:19:50,940 do I have a secret? Oh, and I can see the stream up here. Oh, 325 00:19:50,940 --> 00:19:53,910 nice. Okay, I like it. That's a little player there for the 326 00:19:53,910 --> 00:19:54,390 stream. 327 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:58,620 Dave Jones: Yeah, that's right. So this is what he was the idea 328 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:08,910 So nice. You know, we're having our discussion last week, you 329 00:20:08,910 --> 00:20:16,320 know, I realized what sort of the magic is of, of the way that 330 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:21,030 noster sits with people. And you me you describe that you said, 331 00:20:21,690 --> 00:20:26,760 You know what the magic part was that you went to you. The no 332 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:30,480 agenda social went down. You went to noster threw in your 333 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,750 public key Erythraean your private key, and boom, you're, 334 00:20:33,780 --> 00:20:37,800 you're up and go and right. So the I think the real thing that 335 00:20:37,830 --> 00:20:44,820 people love about noster is is that it has portable identities. 336 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:45,030 Is 337 00:20:45,090 --> 00:20:48,000 Adam Curry: that correct? I think that's because I Yes, 338 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:52,590 because there's like a, was it? Habla dot news, you can use your 339 00:20:52,590 --> 00:20:56,220 same identity to write a newsletter or a post that looks 340 00:20:56,220 --> 00:20:59,100 like a newsletter? So yeah, it's completely portable. And it 341 00:20:59,100 --> 00:21:04,200 pulls in me my name, my, my dt, if you will. Yes. Which, of 342 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,660 course I would love to get some deets from all these beautiful 343 00:21:06,660 --> 00:21:10,980 people I see, like tone wrecker. I know Eric P. P, and who's who 344 00:21:10,980 --> 00:21:14,640 said they set up their noster just for Nathan, Nathan. Right. 345 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,970 And so I'd love to be able to click on Nathan G and get his 346 00:21:17,970 --> 00:21:18,990 noster deets. 347 00:21:20,100 --> 00:21:23,820 Dave Jones: So, so identity, identity is really the sort of 348 00:21:23,820 --> 00:21:28,950 magic sauce there. Everything else. You know, I mean, it. 349 00:21:29,490 --> 00:21:33,990 Relays whatever you could you could put other stuff underneath 350 00:21:33,990 --> 00:21:39,150 the hood. And all that's debatable. But as far as, you 351 00:21:39,150 --> 00:21:42,540 know, as far as just the what the magic have been thing that 352 00:21:42,540 --> 00:21:45,870 people are infatuated with noster is that I really think 353 00:21:45,870 --> 00:21:46,950 it's the identity piece. 354 00:21:46,980 --> 00:21:50,280 Adam Curry: I agree with you. But that plays Oh, yeah. All 355 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:51,330 right. Yeah, you 356 00:21:51,330 --> 00:21:52,860 Dave Jones: know, but it goes both ways. Like we said last 357 00:21:52,860 --> 00:21:56,520 week, I mean, you you a lot of times, you don't want a static 358 00:21:56,520 --> 00:22:00,390 identity that follows you everywhere. If somebody goes 359 00:22:00,390 --> 00:22:06,930 into a chat session in a live show, they Yeah, we're both by 360 00:22:06,930 --> 00:22:09,540 the way, multiple, multiple different chat rooms and a 361 00:22:09,540 --> 00:22:12,870 single podcast live, this is this is destined for, okay. 362 00:22:14,220 --> 00:22:15,240 Adam Curry: I'm looking at both of them. 363 00:22:16,860 --> 00:22:21,930 Dave Jones: really confusing. So, so the, like, you may not 364 00:22:21,930 --> 00:22:26,040 want your identity or a particular identity tied to a 365 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:30,480 certain thing that you're involved in. But the nice thing 366 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:35,010 about about the simple Public Private Key Pair with noster is 367 00:22:35,010 --> 00:22:38,370 these can be possible. Yeah, be throw away accounts. 368 00:22:38,369 --> 00:22:41,039 Adam Curry: Just just like a bitcoin address. throw that one 369 00:22:41,039 --> 00:22:41,939 out. Use another one. 370 00:22:42,420 --> 00:22:45,600 Dave Jones: Yeah, so this. So what I what I started thinking 371 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,950 was what if we just sort of embrace just that part of things 372 00:22:49,950 --> 00:22:53,250 to begin with? So MK Hoelscher was the chat server that I had 373 00:22:53,250 --> 00:22:57,480 pulled in or that that I had built, like, built halfway, 374 00:22:57,510 --> 00:23:01,890 maybe a year ago to try to start playing around with Super Chat, 375 00:23:02,340 --> 00:23:04,680 cuz we have lit and we were gonna say, Okay, well, let's 376 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,140 pull in booster grams. I just had the Super Chat idea. And the 377 00:23:07,140 --> 00:23:13,920 idea of MK Ultra was you have you have a it's a chat room that 378 00:23:15,030 --> 00:23:19,680 that podcasters can spin up easily. And it's sort of an 379 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,490 ephemeral chat room. They can last as long as the episode or 380 00:23:23,490 --> 00:23:26,940 as long as they wanted to. And it pulls in all their booster 381 00:23:26,940 --> 00:23:30,390 grams and everything as this stuff is flowing in and activity 382 00:23:30,390 --> 00:23:32,880 pub and all the different things that they're flying around. It's 383 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,480 pulling all this stuff into a chat into the chat room. And 384 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,960 then at the end of it, it exports you can have it as the 385 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:45,060 podcast, you can have an export a timestamped Super Chat file. 386 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,980 Adam Curry: Oh, oh Na, you can export that and then you can you 387 00:23:49,980 --> 00:23:54,600 can use that as a set weight, then we can integrate that into 388 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:59,340 Daniel J. Lewis is decentralized cross camera stops. 389 00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:06,840 Dave Jones: Not yet. My brain you I'm sorry, I'm 390 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:08,550 Adam Curry: sorry. I'll stop. I'll stop. Okay, 391 00:24:08,580 --> 00:24:12,180 Dave Jones: so then you can export this timestamped Super 392 00:24:12,180 --> 00:24:16,260 Chat file and now you have something you can replay like a 393 00:24:16,260 --> 00:24:19,620 real super chat and you can attach it somehow to the episode 394 00:24:19,620 --> 00:24:24,510 in the feed. And for people who are you know, replaying your 395 00:24:24,540 --> 00:24:26,850 your episode or whatever, you can figure out the time stamping 396 00:24:26,850 --> 00:24:29,520 out stuff all this stuff still takes work but that you would 397 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:33,240 have something to replay Okay, so if you pull if you pull that 398 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:40,170 idea into any combine that with nostra identities, so you can 399 00:24:40,170 --> 00:24:43,530 spin here's here's how you spin this thing up. You you run, you 400 00:24:43,530 --> 00:24:47,670 run the code on command line, and it gives you a session ID 401 00:24:47,670 --> 00:24:51,960 which is that Cid equals blah blah blah in the URL bar, gives 402 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:58,140 you a session ID you put that goes into your lit tag when we 403 00:24:58,140 --> 00:25:02,580 have the chat when we have a Podcast co launch app tag 404 00:25:02,580 --> 00:25:05,580 finished, right? That goes in there. People go to that when 405 00:25:05,580 --> 00:25:07,650 they when they're listening to the show, they can listen to the 406 00:25:07,650 --> 00:25:10,950 stream right there on the page. But when you go into the page, 407 00:25:11,370 --> 00:25:14,160 it says, Do you want to have you want to use your noster? Id, 408 00:25:14,190 --> 00:25:17,520 Adam Curry: right? Or something or something else? Or do you 409 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:17,670 want 410 00:25:17,670 --> 00:25:21,510 Dave Jones: to create an IDE, an identification? And Id? 411 00:25:21,540 --> 00:25:23,520 Adam Curry: Are you creating a container with 412 00:25:23,519 --> 00:25:26,489 Dave Jones: that? Yes. Oh, sweet. 413 00:25:26,670 --> 00:25:30,360 So what happens is if you create a key pair instead, if you 414 00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:34,380 create an identity instead of using a nostre identity, it 415 00:25:34,380 --> 00:25:40,980 still creates a nostre identity for you, man, after you do 416 00:25:40,980 --> 00:25:43,350 those, since you used your nostril identity, since you 417 00:25:43,350 --> 00:25:47,430 didn't see this part, no, I did that if you if you had just put 418 00:25:47,430 --> 00:25:51,690 in an avatar and a name and hit Create, it would have popped up 419 00:25:51,690 --> 00:25:54,990 and said, Here's your public and private key pair, please save 420 00:25:54,990 --> 00:26:01,950 this for safekeeping. Do you now want to post your identity to 421 00:26:01,950 --> 00:26:05,010 the nostril network so that you can use this identity elsewhere? 422 00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:09,600 If you say yes, you can, you've now created an a nostra identity 423 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,210 and you can take that and you can go anywhere else somewhere 424 00:26:12,210 --> 00:26:15,060 Adam Curry: else. Oh, nice. Oh, it's awesome identity creator. 425 00:26:15,330 --> 00:26:18,870 Dave Jones: It is an identity creator. And so if but, but the 426 00:26:18,870 --> 00:26:22,290 key here is if you look up at the top where your your avatar 427 00:26:22,290 --> 00:26:23,520 is, you have the little checkbox. 428 00:26:23,550 --> 00:26:27,870 Adam Curry: Yeah. I see a little checkmark, I want my post to be 429 00:26:27,930 --> 00:26:28,650 ephemeral. 430 00:26:29,100 --> 00:26:32,400 Dave Jones: Yes. So if you if you that's the prince or the 431 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,820 master privacy switch, if you have that checked and it's 432 00:26:35,820 --> 00:26:40,950 checked by default, anything you chat will not be broadcast back 433 00:26:40,950 --> 00:26:45,240 out to noster any it won't go to any realize it stays with you 434 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:46,920 know what happens in the boardroom stays in the 435 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:47,340 boardroom. 436 00:26:47,820 --> 00:26:50,310 Adam Curry: So what I'm what I'm posting now is going out to 437 00:26:50,310 --> 00:26:50,910 noster 438 00:26:51,300 --> 00:26:53,190 Dave Jones: if you haven't checked it is not going to 439 00:26:53,190 --> 00:26:54,330 nostril, these these 440 00:26:55,290 --> 00:27:00,690 Adam Curry: nostril. Okay, so uncheck it. And I say testing. 441 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:07,230 The board room chat. Okay. Yes. All right. Now I know I go to my 442 00:27:07,230 --> 00:27:11,730 nostril. Yes. Funny. It was funny because I use I use snort 443 00:27:11,730 --> 00:27:17,550 so it makes total sense. And I go over here. Oh, man. Dave 444 00:27:17,550 --> 00:27:18,810 Jones, what have you done? 445 00:27:19,170 --> 00:27:22,740 Dave Jones: Now? You know, of course the drawback of nostril 446 00:27:22,770 --> 00:27:27,240 is it slow? You know, relays then things don't happen quick. 447 00:27:27,510 --> 00:27:31,710 This, this. If you uncheck that, and you and you start posting 448 00:27:31,710 --> 00:27:34,530 those posts should go federated out to nostril. 449 00:27:34,590 --> 00:27:36,600 Adam Curry: Okay, I haven't gotten it here yet. By the way. 450 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:41,070 I do. See I got a I got a noster from Jack Dorsey. 451 00:27:42,420 --> 00:27:46,830 Dave Jones: The nostril a post post? Yeah. Okay. Hey, Jack, 452 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:51,000 arguing with you about Joe Rogan? Yeah, of course. 453 00:27:53,970 --> 00:27:56,670 Adam Curry: He disagrees with me. Like I don't care. So. 454 00:27:56,940 --> 00:28:01,230 Dave Jones: So the idea like, with MK Ultra, it was already a 455 00:28:01,230 --> 00:28:04,110 WebSocket based chat server. That's the way it was designed 456 00:28:04,110 --> 00:28:12,990 from the beginning. Right. So now what it is, is a is a sort 457 00:28:12,990 --> 00:28:18,750 of ephemeral chat room where you control what, where those 458 00:28:18,750 --> 00:28:23,520 messages go. And if you just want it to be something, if you 459 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,310 want to go into it, you're essentially going into incognito 460 00:28:26,310 --> 00:28:30,030 mode for the sake of this session. And then you don't have 461 00:28:30,030 --> 00:28:33,960 to worry about this stuff going out into the broader world. You 462 00:28:34,350 --> 00:28:40,770 but but here again, so it's all nostril inside. Cotton, but it 463 00:28:40,770 --> 00:28:42,810 doesn't have to go anywhere else. 464 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,440 Adam Curry: I love it. I love it. I love it. I mean, what a 465 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:50,700 great start. They've I mean, I can see so and this is exactly 466 00:28:50,700 --> 00:28:54,000 what I thought Nasr would be good for, is for for doing stuff 467 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,000 like this outside of the social network known as noster. 468 00:28:59,100 --> 00:29:01,380 Dave Jones: The good The good thing about it is not that I 469 00:29:01,380 --> 00:29:04,950 didn't have any sort of schema internally for this. So the 470 00:29:04,950 --> 00:29:08,400 nostre are sort of message format. All that stuff is 471 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,790 basically this MK Ultra is now noster on the inside, got it? 472 00:29:11,790 --> 00:29:16,350 Yeah. And it even if nostril nostril fails. You know, even 473 00:29:16,380 --> 00:29:18,660 even if it gets us on its infection, it goes away. 474 00:29:18,900 --> 00:29:21,060 Adam Curry: This will still work this this continues to function. 475 00:29:21,060 --> 00:29:21,420 Yeah. 476 00:29:21,870 --> 00:29:25,740 Dave Jones: Right. And the internal schema for the 477 00:29:25,740 --> 00:29:28,800 messages. That's fine. I mean, I just needed one anyway, so I'll 478 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:32,010 just do this one. It's not a big deal. But now the so the next 479 00:29:32,010 --> 00:29:37,470 step is to switch the WebSocket portion of it to speak that 480 00:29:37,470 --> 00:29:39,570 language and then 481 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,740 Adam Curry: take it from other places as well. If want 482 00:29:43,740 --> 00:29:47,010 Dave Jones: if wanted, yes, and so then at that point, you can 483 00:29:47,310 --> 00:29:52,170 then we can start writing the bridges. So so the idea here is 484 00:29:52,170 --> 00:29:56,730 not to make this a noster thing I got the idea is to have is we 485 00:29:56,730 --> 00:29:59,970 want this thing sucking in. You know that way somebody can post 486 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,670 Do you know somewhere else? 487 00:30:03,780 --> 00:30:08,010 Adam Curry: TV? Yes. IRC, I presume? 488 00:30:08,130 --> 00:30:11,370 Dave Jones: IRC? Yes. Yes. And it will it will all come in here 489 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:16,260 into that. Oh, fun. It'll all get funneled in here. Yeah. And 490 00:30:16,260 --> 00:30:18,900 so the end the night it's pipeline a bowl, so you can 491 00:30:19,890 --> 00:30:22,710 Adam Curry: Oh, no pipeline. No Show title. 492 00:30:23,940 --> 00:30:28,290 Dave Jones: Yeah. This is wonderful. You know, this is 493 00:30:28,290 --> 00:30:31,440 great that people didn't think that I would anticipate HTML 494 00:30:31,950 --> 00:30:32,610 injection. 495 00:30:33,630 --> 00:30:36,090 Adam Curry: I'm glad. Oh, hello, everybody. Do you know who 496 00:30:36,090 --> 00:30:39,390 you're talking to? Is Dave Jones, the pod says you can't 497 00:30:39,390 --> 00:30:39,660 fool. 498 00:30:41,250 --> 00:30:45,270 Dave Jones: Anyway, the the, you can you can sort of pipeline it. 499 00:30:45,270 --> 00:30:51,600 And we could put this into like the, the web hook and sovereign 500 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:55,950 feeds. So that when you do you notice when you spin up a 501 00:30:55,950 --> 00:31:00,840 sovereign state, a new live item, right, right. webhook 502 00:31:00,870 --> 00:31:03,570 would also trigger spinning up a new chat session, a new chat 503 00:31:03,570 --> 00:31:03,810 room, 504 00:31:04,290 --> 00:31:06,180 Adam Curry: but it hasn't come through anywhere on any other 505 00:31:06,180 --> 00:31:09,480 nostril clients, but I presume that's just because it's, it 506 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:09,810 might be 507 00:31:09,810 --> 00:31:11,760 Dave Jones: the relays that is connected to you. Because you 508 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:13,740 know, this is a hint here again, it's 509 00:31:14,730 --> 00:31:16,980 Adam Curry: probably nostril exact. Well, it doesn't really 510 00:31:16,980 --> 00:31:19,170 matter to me right now. I'm super happy with what you're 511 00:31:19,170 --> 00:31:23,040 doing here. This looks so cool. And it makes so much sense. And 512 00:31:23,220 --> 00:31:27,150 no one has to add me in the accounts. Yeah, that's the 513 00:31:27,150 --> 00:31:31,770 beauty. The beauty no admin of accounts. I love that. Do so 514 00:31:31,770 --> 00:31:34,560 Dave Jones: at the at the bottom, you have your public 515 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:35,580 private key pair. 516 00:31:35,670 --> 00:31:36,870 Adam Curry: Oh. 517 00:31:37,740 --> 00:31:40,980 Dave Jones: And you can you can take those you know, you can 518 00:31:40,980 --> 00:31:43,500 copy and paste them and take those with you if you want to go 519 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,700 and use the use your newly minted identities. Where else? 520 00:31:47,700 --> 00:31:51,990 Yes. I'm working on lots. There's lots of work to do. Can 521 00:31:51,990 --> 00:31:52,050 I 522 00:31:52,050 --> 00:31:54,390 Adam Curry: put this link in the show notes so people can play 523 00:31:54,390 --> 00:31:57,300 around with it when the after the after the show is over? 524 00:31:57,300 --> 00:32:01,650 Okay. All right, dude. Nice. All right. So we're just we're just 525 00:32:01,650 --> 00:32:03,420 calling this a first look. 526 00:32:04,230 --> 00:32:07,800 Dave Jones: First Look, first look, again, various. So yeah, 527 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:12,390 well, we'll start bringing in bringing in other stuff as soon 528 00:32:12,390 --> 00:32:14,490 as the WebSocket stuff is converted. 529 00:32:15,540 --> 00:32:18,480 Adam Curry: Cool. I think it's time to bring in our guests, 530 00:32:18,810 --> 00:32:21,060 since we've gotten all GD, unless you have something else 531 00:32:21,060 --> 00:32:26,040 to talk about. But for now, I guess. Yes. Our guest today. You 532 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,130 heard earlier we've been trying to get them in for for several 533 00:32:29,130 --> 00:32:31,500 weeks now. Actually, it's probably a bit longer than that. 534 00:32:31,500 --> 00:32:35,100 They've been working on this. They are part of the hottest new 535 00:32:35,100 --> 00:32:40,230 ship that is coming to value for value and the podcast index. So 536 00:32:40,230 --> 00:32:43,350 hot in fact that people can't even wait for full apps. They're 537 00:32:43,350 --> 00:32:46,470 just going ahead and then running with scissors which we 538 00:32:46,470 --> 00:32:50,280 love. Please welcome from wave Lake co founders Michael Rijn, 539 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:57,990 Sam means hello. Oh, they said he's Unison Hey guys, welcome to 540 00:32:57,990 --> 00:33:00,270 the boardroom. Thank you. 541 00:33:00,300 --> 00:33:01,230 Michael Rhee: Great to be here. 542 00:33:02,250 --> 00:33:04,200 Sam Mean: All this nasty stuff you guys are talking about and 543 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:09,840 Adam Curry: yeah, I've no idea. We're running with scissors once 544 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:10,290 again. 545 00:33:11,460 --> 00:33:15,150 Dave Jones: This this crazy new chat rooms get every attempt to 546 00:33:15,150 --> 00:33:21,120 SQL injection. Dread drips God just posted RM dash RF slash 547 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:21,570 star. 548 00:33:23,310 --> 00:33:24,360 Adam Curry: Good work drive. 549 00:33:24,629 --> 00:33:28,169 Michael Rhee: You got a great QA team. Krauss Oh, yeah. 550 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:33,840 Dave Jones: What so are you speaking of speaking of nostril? 551 00:33:34,290 --> 00:33:37,200 Or do you how do you guys have you ever had any sort of 552 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,000 presence on that on that network? 553 00:33:41,130 --> 00:33:43,830 Michael Rhee: Yeah, yes, sir. And pup, just get a pen and 554 00:33:43,830 --> 00:33:46,650 pencils out. I'm ready to go. 555 00:33:47,730 --> 00:33:50,880 Sam Mean: Yeah. Do we have enough time for this? Yeah, 556 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,730 we've, yeah, we've been we've been playing around on the 557 00:33:53,730 --> 00:33:57,960 roster. I think I was the I was the nostra advocate for a 558 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,960 minute. And now, Michaels coming around? It seems like you guys 559 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,630 are coming around to I remember, not not even too many episodes 560 00:34:03,630 --> 00:34:06,300 ago, it seemed like you were not super into the idea that 561 00:34:07,830 --> 00:34:08,490 technology is, 562 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,380 Adam Curry: that's why there's two of us, you know, it's like 563 00:34:10,410 --> 00:34:13,950 some push back and push forward, back and then something pops out 564 00:34:13,950 --> 00:34:18,240 of the bottom. Let's talk about tell me about you guys and how 565 00:34:18,240 --> 00:34:21,060 you created wave Lake and let everyone understand what wave 566 00:34:21,060 --> 00:34:24,510 Lake is. Because this is, you know, we've obviously been aware 567 00:34:24,510 --> 00:34:27,990 of each other for a long time but trying to get in into a 568 00:34:27,990 --> 00:34:31,410 room. We're in the room now. Tell us where you're coming from 569 00:34:31,410 --> 00:34:33,240 what you're doing. Give us the lowdown? 570 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:35,670 Sam Mean: Sure. Michael, you want to start? 571 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:42,150 Michael Rhee: Yeah, I guess. So. wavelike basically is a way for 572 00:34:42,150 --> 00:34:46,830 artists musicians to put music up online and get the coin in 573 00:34:46,830 --> 00:34:50,760 return from their fans. A lot you know in the way the value 574 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,580 for value work. We're trying to bring that or bring music to 575 00:34:53,580 --> 00:34:57,450 value for value. I started working on wave like about a 576 00:34:57,450 --> 00:35:00,120 year and a half. I love that. Love that little step down By 577 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:04,260 the way, also isn't it isn't I think it's really funny. Like, 578 00:35:04,590 --> 00:35:07,500 it started off as booths. And now like, if you talk about 579 00:35:07,500 --> 00:35:10,560 booths on Noster, like, no one knows what you're talking about. 580 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:11,730 They're like, what is it? 581 00:35:11,879 --> 00:35:14,099 Adam Curry: What is the booths? Yeah, I know. I know. Yes. Like, 582 00:35:14,099 --> 00:35:14,189 we 583 00:35:14,190 --> 00:35:15,480 Dave Jones: don't even exist, you know, 584 00:35:15,509 --> 00:35:17,789 Michael Rhee: like, right. Yeah, the kids are calling us apps 585 00:35:17,789 --> 00:35:21,989 now. So, you know, we I think we can just call them SATs. You 586 00:35:21,989 --> 00:35:22,949 know, that works, too. But 587 00:35:23,850 --> 00:35:26,190 Sam Mean: yeah, so I started working and electric tickle, 588 00:35:28,050 --> 00:35:29,490 Adam Curry: electric to another show? 589 00:35:30,780 --> 00:35:34,890 Michael Rhee: Et for sure. So yeah, I started working on wave 590 00:35:34,890 --> 00:35:39,240 Lake about a year and a half ago. for this exact reason, I 591 00:35:39,240 --> 00:35:42,690 just, you know, started learning about lightning and thought, you 592 00:35:42,690 --> 00:35:45,060 know, I'm a huge music lover, you know, I used to play in a 593 00:35:45,060 --> 00:35:48,420 band. And I thought, well, this would be really cool to just 594 00:35:48,420 --> 00:35:51,870 have people be able to sense that to musicians, instead of 595 00:35:51,870 --> 00:35:55,680 having all these giant streaming platforms out there that are 596 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:59,580 recommending me like just giving me terrible recommendations all 597 00:35:59,580 --> 00:36:03,900 the time. I just wanted to kind of selfishly find cooler new 598 00:36:03,900 --> 00:36:07,140 music that, you know, those algos wouldn't be able to 599 00:36:07,170 --> 00:36:10,620 recommend me. So I started building it around the same 600 00:36:10,620 --> 00:36:14,790 time, kind of, coincidentally, one of the first things that I 601 00:36:14,790 --> 00:36:19,770 found was Sam's music on lightning app called sphinx 602 00:36:19,770 --> 00:36:25,650 chat. It just kind of made, he made kind of like a podcast feed 603 00:36:25,770 --> 00:36:29,460 or a channel on things chat, but he had put his songs on there 604 00:36:29,460 --> 00:36:32,640 instead of having podcast episode. So that was my first 605 00:36:33,030 --> 00:36:36,120 kind of meeting with Stan. But we, you know, we didn't interact 606 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,370 or anything, it was just my first time, the first time ever 607 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,940 heard of him. And then I think a few months later, I launched 608 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:45,990 like a really early version of wavelike. And Sam was one of the 609 00:36:45,990 --> 00:36:50,580 first people to check it out. And like we were on a late night 610 00:36:50,580 --> 00:36:54,570 Twitter session over DMS trying to like debug stuff, because I 611 00:36:54,570 --> 00:36:59,790 set it up to have artists bring their own node connected to the 612 00:36:59,790 --> 00:37:03,450 site, and then there was all this kind of legwork required to 613 00:37:03,450 --> 00:37:07,410 get you on board. But we finally got through it. He got on, you 614 00:37:07,410 --> 00:37:09,300 know, he was one of the first artists on there, if not the 615 00:37:09,300 --> 00:37:15,600 first. Yeah, and then, you know, we started talking more, I 616 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,030 learned more about him, you know, he runs lightning store as 617 00:37:18,030 --> 00:37:21,690 well, which has all these dope T shirts that are Bitcoin themed 618 00:37:21,690 --> 00:37:25,500 and stickers and stuff. Yeah, learn more about his background 619 00:37:25,500 --> 00:37:29,940 as a musician who started talking more. And then yeah, in 620 00:37:29,940 --> 00:37:34,440 the last, I don't know, nine months, we kind of decided like, 621 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,770 we should get serious about this. And then, yeah, the wave 622 00:37:37,770 --> 00:37:42,120 like that you see today is basically that the result of 623 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:43,410 that collaboration. 624 00:37:43,860 --> 00:37:48,120 Adam Curry: So now, wave lake itself, you have your own system 625 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:52,770 running for people to pay for music and listening to you have 626 00:37:52,770 --> 00:37:55,620 different ways of doing that. And then we'll talk about how it 627 00:37:55,920 --> 00:38:00,120 interacts with value for value podcast apps. What exactly is 628 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:01,830 the mechanism on wavelike? itself? 629 00:38:04,140 --> 00:38:07,380 Michael Rhee: Yeah, so the way we have like work today is you 630 00:38:07,650 --> 00:38:11,430 sign up for an account, we tried to make it really easy. You have 631 00:38:11,430 --> 00:38:16,230 an email address, or a Twitter login, or a Google login. Once 632 00:38:16,230 --> 00:38:19,260 you're logged in, you automatically get a wallet 633 00:38:19,470 --> 00:38:23,460 assigned to you. And if you're an artist, you can start 634 00:38:23,550 --> 00:38:26,580 uploading tracks and a really, really easy to use interface. 635 00:38:27,630 --> 00:38:33,330 And then once you press publish those tracks go out to our 636 00:38:33,330 --> 00:38:36,540 website, and then we simultaneously create an RSS 637 00:38:36,540 --> 00:38:41,820 feed. That is podcast to Dotto compliance. 638 00:38:41,850 --> 00:38:43,980 Adam Curry: Whoa, who's got the train? Hello. 639 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,420 Sam Mean: That's me. That's definitely me. Sorry, I work I 640 00:38:48,450 --> 00:38:51,360 work in an old industrial building. And there's three 641 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:52,200 right on schedule. 642 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:54,840 Adam Curry: Sam, clearly on the wrong side of the tracks there. 643 00:38:55,890 --> 00:39:00,150 Michael Rhee: Yeah, yeah. So So yeah, so once it's uploaded, the 644 00:39:00,150 --> 00:39:04,500 music appears on weebly.com for our users to zap or you can just 645 00:39:04,500 --> 00:39:07,080 app anonymously, you can just anonymously can just you know, 646 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,420 generate an invoice for something you like if you're 647 00:39:09,420 --> 00:39:12,210 hearing it and you're not logged in, you can just boost it it'll 648 00:39:12,210 --> 00:39:15,750 create a bolt 11 invoice for you and then you can support the 649 00:39:15,750 --> 00:39:18,660 artists that way and then simultaneously we have got these 650 00:39:18,660 --> 00:39:23,430 RSS feeds and I think yeah, some of them have been shown up on 651 00:39:23,460 --> 00:39:27,330 players like fountain and curio cast or not curate cast or music 652 00:39:27,330 --> 00:39:31,290 side project. And I don't know where else they could be going 653 00:39:31,290 --> 00:39:35,340 elsewhere as well. But yeah, we were trying to you know, we're 654 00:39:35,340 --> 00:39:40,440 trying to support artists in the in the best ways possible that 655 00:39:40,500 --> 00:39:45,150 in this kind of this new emerging world of lightning and 656 00:39:45,330 --> 00:39:47,580 Bitcoin and not cast it out, oh, and 657 00:39:47,580 --> 00:39:48,390 Sam Mean: now noster 658 00:39:48,420 --> 00:39:51,720 Adam Curry: Do you have any form of splits setup? Do you have a 659 00:39:51,720 --> 00:39:55,050 split editor that that people can use when when the feed is 660 00:39:55,050 --> 00:39:57,060 created or when their account is created? 661 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,980 Michael Rhee: Not yet, not but we will Got that. So yes it 662 00:40:02,100 --> 00:40:04,380 Adam Curry: because that's, that's always been my dream 663 00:40:04,380 --> 00:40:09,510 having dealt with I mean, I'm a radio I know Michael you're also 664 00:40:09,510 --> 00:40:14,940 both you guys radio guys as well. But as a radio guy I 665 00:40:14,940 --> 00:40:18,300 always want to play music in my podcast and there is there's 666 00:40:18,300 --> 00:40:23,160 just no legal way to do it with ASCAP BMI, etc, licensed music 667 00:40:23,310 --> 00:40:26,370 and the I forget the EU all the mechanical stuff, if it's 668 00:40:26,370 --> 00:40:29,460 downloadable, it's a quagmire, the only way you can really do 669 00:40:29,460 --> 00:40:32,640 anything is, you know, is you can have a stream great, you can 670 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,220 have a pre programmed stream, and there's all these 671 00:40:35,460 --> 00:40:37,470 limitations as to what you can do. So it's completely 672 00:40:37,470 --> 00:40:41,640 unworkable. And I always felt that with the split 673 00:40:41,670 --> 00:40:46,410 architecture, you can circumvent all of that. So that writer 674 00:40:46,410 --> 00:40:51,150 composer, you know, even for the performance royalties, you know, 675 00:40:51,150 --> 00:40:53,550 like what Spotify gives to artists, you know, you can you 676 00:40:53,550 --> 00:40:56,100 can bake that right in, you can make in your roadie, you know, 677 00:40:56,100 --> 00:40:59,460 your road crew, whatever it whatever you want, and have that 678 00:40:59,460 --> 00:41:04,680 in the splits. And I think that, to me is, is where the future is 679 00:41:04,860 --> 00:41:06,930 so that everybody can get paid. 680 00:41:07,890 --> 00:41:10,050 Sam Mean: Yeah, even even the drummer gets a cut in that 681 00:41:10,050 --> 00:41:13,980 situation, which is under the burden. 682 00:41:15,390 --> 00:41:18,390 But none of that's, that's yet so we don't have that yet. But 683 00:41:18,390 --> 00:41:20,490 it's that's been in the conversation since day one. 684 00:41:20,490 --> 00:41:22,950 Because that's really what we're trying to do is not we don't 685 00:41:22,950 --> 00:41:26,430 want to perpetuate any of the existing problems and have been 686 00:41:26,430 --> 00:41:33,150 music industry for this time. But that we just want to make 687 00:41:33,150 --> 00:41:35,370 sure we do it right. So that it's it's seamless, that was the 688 00:41:35,370 --> 00:41:37,890 main thing going into this sense, it was a little bit 689 00:41:37,890 --> 00:41:41,160 difficult to use the an alpha version of wave Lake, and it was 690 00:41:41,580 --> 00:41:44,940 a little confusing, and it did sort of, in some ways, put 691 00:41:44,940 --> 00:41:49,800 things behind a wall, on this new version, everything. We're 692 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:51,570 just trying to make sure that every decision and every 693 00:41:51,570 --> 00:41:53,640 information that comes implementation that comes into 694 00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:57,570 it, is coming from an angle that's going to actually help 695 00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,180 down the road and not just continue to perpetuate these 696 00:42:00,180 --> 00:42:01,230 stupid things that we see. 697 00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:03,930 Adam Curry: Actually, I mean, you know, what we've been doing 698 00:42:03,930 --> 00:42:07,620 is we've been we have an API, we can help people create splits, 699 00:42:07,620 --> 00:42:10,110 you know, that we maintain if it's not on the feed? Yeah, but 700 00:42:10,110 --> 00:42:13,860 ultimately, you want that to be in the feed. How are you guys 701 00:42:13,860 --> 00:42:19,110 taking a percentage of, of of every every boost, zap, etc? 702 00:42:19,110 --> 00:42:19,800 That comes in? 703 00:42:20,490 --> 00:42:22,470 Sam Mean: Yeah, right now we're taking a percentage, and we're, 704 00:42:22,500 --> 00:42:26,460 I mean, everything's outside of that everything's free. But at 705 00:42:26,460 --> 00:42:29,250 some point in time, we're gonna have to have some kind of 706 00:42:29,250 --> 00:42:33,570 hosting fee. We're juggling how and how we're gonna do that 707 00:42:33,570 --> 00:42:36,600 exactly. If that ends up being like a percentage as well. Or if 708 00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,090 it's a flat rate, we're trying to figure out technically how to 709 00:42:39,090 --> 00:42:43,170 do that on a scalable model. But I like I mean, I really liked 710 00:42:43,170 --> 00:42:45,990 the percentage model. I work in the band merchandise business, 711 00:42:45,990 --> 00:42:48,180 and that's how I do everything. I don't charge. I've been doing 712 00:42:48,180 --> 00:42:50,340 that for 15 years. I don't charge anybody for anything 713 00:42:50,340 --> 00:42:52,830 unless something sells so I'd like to continue doing something 714 00:42:52,830 --> 00:42:55,830 like that because it's worked for me for a long time. But 715 00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,970 technic technically you have to there's some hurdles there. And 716 00:42:59,970 --> 00:43:02,700 I think you and I are a lot of like we're we're maybe not like 717 00:43:02,700 --> 00:43:08,760 the most technical people so sometimes really great ideas. We 718 00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:10,620 can we can I know we can. We can 719 00:43:10,620 --> 00:43:14,400 Adam Curry: dream it up. We can. We can break dream big. We can 720 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:14,640 dream 721 00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,010 Sam Mean: and cool thing. Yeah, you gotta have a good partner 722 00:43:17,010 --> 00:43:19,830 Michael always says just keep dreaming big cuz like, you know, 723 00:43:19,830 --> 00:43:20,610 that's the fun part. 724 00:43:21,150 --> 00:43:24,600 Dave Jones: I don't think people I don't I'm not sure people have 725 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:28,560 fully realized yet the power of what Alex created when he 726 00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:33,510 created the medium tag for for the podcast feed. Yeah. Because 727 00:43:33,930 --> 00:43:40,200 it like this enables music has never had in the digital world. 728 00:43:40,260 --> 00:43:45,540 In the digital world music has never had a delivery protocol or 729 00:43:45,540 --> 00:43:51,150 delivery mechanism. That is that is open. I mean, everything has 730 00:43:51,150 --> 00:43:54,960 been proprietary since day one. I mean, there's been no open 731 00:43:54,960 --> 00:44:03,540 protocol for music delivery. So the the just simply tagging the 732 00:44:03,540 --> 00:44:10,980 podcast feed as medium music a lot instantly allows you to have 733 00:44:11,460 --> 00:44:15,420 a music delivery service that just piggybacks on top of the 734 00:44:15,420 --> 00:44:20,160 existing podcast infrastructure, which is already built out. I 735 00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:24,960 think the you know, in one thing that does is it puts it 736 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:29,760 decentralizes A decent realizes all of the a lot of the costs, 737 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:33,120 and maybe not all of them. I was reading this article. Today it 738 00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:37,320 was this from in BW or the music business worldwide. And it said 739 00:44:37,980 --> 00:44:41,550 there are 67 million audio tracks sitting on music 740 00:44:41,550 --> 00:44:46,890 streaming services today that in the 2020, the 22 calendar year 741 00:44:46,890 --> 00:44:51,540 attracted 10 or fewer streams a piece. That's 67 minutes. See, 742 00:44:51,810 --> 00:44:55,350 that's 42% of the entire catalogue of tracks available on 743 00:44:55,350 --> 00:44:59,520 streaming had less than 10 streams in the whole year. Right 744 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:04,170 Somebody but but these guys like Spotify, they still have to pay 745 00:45:04,410 --> 00:45:06,960 for all of the hosting it did. It reminded me of this when you 746 00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:12,210 talked about a hosting fee. Sam in like, in this article goes on 747 00:45:12,210 --> 00:45:16,530 to show that Spotify is paying a minimum. They don't know, exact 748 00:45:16,530 --> 00:45:19,830 figures. But the minimum amount Spotify is paying to Google for 749 00:45:19,830 --> 00:45:26,250 Cloud Storage is $150 million a year to store your music which 750 00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:28,680 of which 42% is not even, 751 00:45:29,130 --> 00:45:31,500 Adam Curry: not even used. And that's why they got such a chip 752 00:45:31,500 --> 00:45:32,940 on their shoulder about it all. 753 00:45:33,060 --> 00:45:34,020 Dave Jones: Yeah, be pissed. 754 00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:38,400 Adam Curry: You should shut up musician. 755 00:45:39,180 --> 00:45:40,650 Michael Rhee: Well, I mean, there's interest, there's this 756 00:45:40,650 --> 00:45:44,820 like this all started off free, right. Also a free and open 757 00:45:44,820 --> 00:45:48,030 insert terms of music streaming. So there were mp3 That was just 758 00:45:48,030 --> 00:45:51,630 an open standard file format. And then there was Napster. And 759 00:45:51,630 --> 00:45:55,620 it was really easy to like, find people's libraries share music, 760 00:45:55,620 --> 00:45:58,590 all that. Obviously, that system wasn't great for artists, 761 00:45:58,590 --> 00:46:02,610 because people were basically just sharing music for free 762 00:46:02,610 --> 00:46:03,090 without 763 00:46:03,569 --> 00:46:05,879 Adam Curry: paying for it. Although although if you look at 764 00:46:05,879 --> 00:46:09,539 the numbers, and I remember them well, it turned out that Napster 765 00:46:09,539 --> 00:46:11,819 actually was quite a boon for the music industry, because 766 00:46:11,819 --> 00:46:15,209 people would go out and buy stuff. And I believe Spotify 767 00:46:15,209 --> 00:46:18,299 initially was a peer a peer to peer sharing protocol. 768 00:46:19,740 --> 00:46:23,100 Michael Rhee: Yeah, I remember that. But yeah, I mean, things 769 00:46:23,100 --> 00:46:27,240 just kind of went behind, we kind of fit we kind of went one 770 00:46:27,240 --> 00:46:29,790 direction, you know, having everything open and free. And 771 00:46:29,790 --> 00:46:32,820 and now we've swung like so far in the other direction where 772 00:46:32,820 --> 00:46:33,930 everything's paywall? 773 00:46:34,530 --> 00:46:36,930 Adam Curry: Well, not just that, but the record companies, the 774 00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:42,180 labels themselves own own most of Spotify. And they and the way 775 00:46:42,180 --> 00:46:45,480 the contracts are written, you know, they can just keep raising 776 00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,480 the rates on Spotify, whenever however they want. Well, not 777 00:46:48,510 --> 00:46:52,620 whenever, but the contract duration is so short, the 778 00:46:52,620 --> 00:46:55,710 Spotify really has no way to ever become profitable. 779 00:46:58,140 --> 00:47:00,150 Sam Mean: I just got to Spotify for artists, email, guys, I 780 00:47:00,150 --> 00:47:04,800 think there was something. So yeah, I mean, I think there's a 781 00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:07,230 solution for this too, which does the same thing, although 782 00:47:07,230 --> 00:47:09,630 it's one another one of those bigger ideas. But I mean, I've 783 00:47:09,630 --> 00:47:13,470 always wanted to see some way to go back to that file sharing 784 00:47:13,890 --> 00:47:16,800 peer to peer file sharing system, but now incorporate 785 00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:18,930 something with, you know, lightning so that it can 786 00:47:18,930 --> 00:47:21,420 potentially fix that problem. How that happens? I don't know. 787 00:47:21,420 --> 00:47:24,300 But it seems possible. And I definitely see more and more 788 00:47:24,300 --> 00:47:27,660 people talking about that, especially around noster 789 00:47:28,140 --> 00:47:31,260 conversations. And in MIPS, they're I think there's at least 790 00:47:31,260 --> 00:47:35,250 two nips right now being introduced that are sort of 791 00:47:35,250 --> 00:47:38,670 pitching the political filesharing idea. So as that 792 00:47:38,670 --> 00:47:40,980 could potentially be something that makes the interface that 793 00:47:42,090 --> 00:47:44,460 you can sort of integrate and play nice. And maybe there's a 794 00:47:44,460 --> 00:47:45,330 way to see that happen. 795 00:47:45,720 --> 00:47:49,110 Dave Jones: We've been down the noster guys have stars in their 796 00:47:49,110 --> 00:47:55,140 eyes, we've been down that road with IPFS. It's not. It's not 797 00:47:55,140 --> 00:47:57,690 ready for primetime. I mean, not even close now. 798 00:47:57,720 --> 00:48:00,060 Sam Mean: Not even not even close. I'm just hopeful for the 799 00:48:00,060 --> 00:48:02,880 future. That's something like that could come down the road. 800 00:48:04,140 --> 00:48:08,070 Dave Jones: What is your typical day? But what is the typical 801 00:48:08,070 --> 00:48:12,990 wave Lake? If there is one? What is the typical wave like artists 802 00:48:13,410 --> 00:48:16,020 look like when they when they onboard to wave like, what? 803 00:48:16,710 --> 00:48:20,190 Where are they coming from? What are they? Are they? Are they? Do 804 00:48:20,190 --> 00:48:26,040 they already have a you know, a successful thing going? Or is 805 00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,490 this? Are these new people that are just looking to sort of 806 00:48:29,490 --> 00:48:33,390 publish their first works? What does this look like? Typically? 807 00:48:35,070 --> 00:48:37,740 Sam Mean: It's really cool. We've seen a wide variety 808 00:48:37,740 --> 00:48:40,980 actually, now it's starting to expand quite a bit. I think we 809 00:48:40,980 --> 00:48:46,710 have over 150 artists on there now. You know, we are seeing a 810 00:48:46,710 --> 00:48:49,560 ton of music coming in from Africa, we're seeing a lot of 811 00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:53,040 Bandcamp people. Eric, you mentioned tone record, and now 812 00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:57,510 he's the listener. Tone record is awesome. Love that dude. You 813 00:48:57,510 --> 00:49:02,820 know, he uploaded 125 records, I think releases is pretty cool. 814 00:49:03,750 --> 00:49:06,300 But we're seeing a lot. I mean, there's, there's like a whole we 815 00:49:06,300 --> 00:49:08,190 kind of joke around about it, because there's like a whole 816 00:49:08,190 --> 00:49:10,920 Bitcoin genre of music. I think that was the first stuff that 817 00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:15,030 came on. And a lot of the value for value. People came on, you 818 00:49:15,030 --> 00:49:17,550 know, that was like the first wave. And then it just started 819 00:49:17,550 --> 00:49:19,830 to catch a little bit of traction. So now we're getting 820 00:49:19,830 --> 00:49:24,300 people that you know, we're seeing like bedroom projects, 821 00:49:24,330 --> 00:49:26,880 we're seeing some projects that have been like in the closet, 822 00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:30,870 like, Oh, I did this back in the 90s I never released it or at 823 00:49:30,870 --> 00:49:33,780 least locally. But this is really fun. I want to try it 824 00:49:33,780 --> 00:49:35,880 out. So I'm uploading this project, you know, from like, 825 00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:38,610 1998 or something, you know, and you're discovering like cool 826 00:49:38,610 --> 00:49:39,120 music 827 00:49:39,180 --> 00:49:46,320 Adam Curry: in 2006. We started the podsafe Music Network and 828 00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:51,030 the podsafe Music Network. The idea was you know, if you own 829 00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:54,480 your music and you own all the all the you know, you haven't 830 00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,840 given your rights away or you haven't you're not ASCAP BMI or 831 00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:01,650 whatever, you've solved all of that. And then you could put 832 00:50:01,650 --> 00:50:05,040 your music up on the podsafe Music Network. And when a 833 00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:08,970 podcast plays as podcasters, they register they go in, they 834 00:50:08,970 --> 00:50:12,660 could download your stuff played on their podcast. And the 835 00:50:12,720 --> 00:50:16,320 agreement was that as part of the license, because we wrote a 836 00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:19,980 podsafe music license, which is very simple. When you play it on 837 00:50:19,980 --> 00:50:22,980 your podcast, you have to credit that in the show notes and 838 00:50:22,980 --> 00:50:26,190 report back into the podsafe Music Network. What was 839 00:50:26,220 --> 00:50:31,980 interesting, is we got a quite a quite a large number of artists 840 00:50:31,980 --> 00:50:35,940 from the 70s song from the 60s who had either That's awesome. 841 00:50:35,970 --> 00:50:38,760 Yeah, the stuff had come back to them, but they owned it all. And 842 00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:42,570 they were actually putting their music up. And I expect you'll 843 00:50:42,570 --> 00:50:43,680 see that as well. 844 00:50:44,670 --> 00:50:46,350 Michael Rhee: Yeah, I mean, you were mentioning it earlier, 845 00:50:46,620 --> 00:50:52,590 about podcasts, about music and, you know, or sorry, being able 846 00:50:52,590 --> 00:50:55,470 to put music in a podcast. Yeah, all the hurdles you have to jump 847 00:50:55,470 --> 00:50:58,350 through to do that are hoops you have to jump through. One of the 848 00:50:58,350 --> 00:51:01,530 things that I feel like has been lacking for so long, and 849 00:51:01,530 --> 00:51:05,130 podcasting has been around forever. I can't name a single 850 00:51:05,130 --> 00:51:10,350 like podcast about music where they maybe analyze albums, or I 851 00:51:10,350 --> 00:51:15,720 mean, there are some but none that can really dive into music, 852 00:51:15,750 --> 00:51:19,500 like pull out snippets, or play whole songs or albums and 853 00:51:19,500 --> 00:51:23,910 analyze them, you know, in like a documentary style. I feel like 854 00:51:23,910 --> 00:51:28,350 there aren't really any podcasts like that, because of how 855 00:51:28,350 --> 00:51:31,890 difficult all of the licensing and royalties rights are 856 00:51:31,950 --> 00:51:34,950 Adam Curry: correct. And in fact, in some of these 857 00:51:34,950 --> 00:51:38,340 licensing, in many of the streaming licenses, you can't 858 00:51:38,340 --> 00:51:41,580 even have three songs back to back of the same artists you Oh, 859 00:51:41,580 --> 00:51:46,440 no, no, that's that's verboten. But I yeah, I still talk to guys 860 00:51:46,710 --> 00:51:48,540 who come from the from the industry in the show, it's 861 00:51:48,540 --> 00:51:51,690 broken, is completely broken. All of its broken. And this is, 862 00:51:51,720 --> 00:51:55,410 this is really exciting. And when you talk about having music 863 00:51:55,410 --> 00:51:59,760 and a podcast, you know, what, what my vision is, maybe through 864 00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:02,430 something we call the remote item tag, or, you know, some 865 00:52:02,430 --> 00:52:06,300 other mechanism is when, you know, besides me just being able 866 00:52:06,300 --> 00:52:11,010 to put than artists in a in a value block split, if I play a 867 00:52:11,010 --> 00:52:14,220 song, and you know, so here's three minutes of this song, I 868 00:52:14,220 --> 00:52:18,360 want the value block of that song with all its splits to take 869 00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:22,710 precedence over mine. And so then whatever's coming in, at 870 00:52:22,710 --> 00:52:24,900 that moment, when someone is listening to that song, I want 871 00:52:24,900 --> 00:52:27,600 it to go to the artists maybe, you know, I keep a few a few 872 00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:31,320 points, you know, for for doing it. But I mean, these are all 873 00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:35,160 things that are within our grasp, but only Dave Jones would 874 00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:39,030 hurry up and build it. This is the this. 875 00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:45,450 Dave Jones: Like, we have, we have this proposal for open for 876 00:52:45,450 --> 00:52:48,750 remote items. So we can you know, you can share play lists, 877 00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:52,560 like it's ready. Here's what I want to get into. Because we you 878 00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:55,140 know, I had spoken with you guys once before, a couple months 879 00:52:55,140 --> 00:52:58,800 ago, maybe three months ago, I don't remember. And y'all, you 880 00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:03,750 had said some stuff that really was really important and eye 881 00:53:03,750 --> 00:53:09,600 opening to me about what you wanted to learn. Because you're 882 00:53:09,630 --> 00:53:12,870 I think you're really, from what I gathered in our discussion, 883 00:53:12,870 --> 00:53:16,200 you were really focused on the quality of the experience for 884 00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:20,610 the listener. And so rather than just rather than just throwing a 885 00:53:20,610 --> 00:53:24,150 bunch of feeds out there with music in it, and letting it just 886 00:53:24,150 --> 00:53:27,990 roll into podcast apps, which the current pod it, when you 887 00:53:27,990 --> 00:53:31,920 listen to a podcast, the app is not set up to handle that in the 888 00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:37,500 proper way for music. But what what are your because we have so 889 00:53:37,500 --> 00:53:41,550 many app developers listening? What is your vision for what a 890 00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:46,320 proper music experience in a podcast app looks like? Or just 891 00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:50,010 not even forget the idea of a podcast app? What is the proper 892 00:53:50,010 --> 00:53:54,480 music experience from the that y'all would like to see you like 893 00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:55,590 on a mobile device? 894 00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:02,820 Michael Rhee: Yeah, I mean, I think at a baseline, everyone 895 00:54:02,850 --> 00:54:09,030 knows what a streaming music app should feel like, how it looks, 896 00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:12,510 how you can find tracks, I can find artists, how things are 897 00:54:12,510 --> 00:54:16,380 organized. The responsiveness of it, you know, when you press 898 00:54:16,380 --> 00:54:20,340 play, music starts playing within a couple seconds at the 899 00:54:20,850 --> 00:54:25,440 longest. So I think with those expectations that people are 900 00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:30,120 just familiar with and used to, I think, at a baseline that has 901 00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:33,120 to do all that, well. It's got to look good, it's got to feel 902 00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:37,200 good. And then on top of that, you know, we have all of these 903 00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:41,610 payment possibilities. Now, for a listener to be able to not 904 00:54:41,610 --> 00:54:47,250 only interact with an artist directly via Bitcoin, but then 905 00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:50,130 we can build things on top of that as well in terms of, you 906 00:54:50,130 --> 00:54:54,420 know, message interactions. You know, we're having things like 907 00:54:54,420 --> 00:54:58,800 badges that listeners can earn and, you know, those badges 908 00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:02,310 could be purely Like superficial and aesthetic, or those badges 909 00:55:02,310 --> 00:55:07,350 could actually mean something in terms of unlocking some kind of 910 00:55:07,350 --> 00:55:12,420 exclusive access to particular artists work or, you know, extra 911 00:55:12,420 --> 00:55:15,840 work. Yes, Sam, I don't know, you got other thoughts on this? 912 00:55:16,470 --> 00:55:18,570 Sam Mean: I mean, yeah, I just I would like to see it be more of 913 00:55:18,570 --> 00:55:21,690 a direct connect between the fan and the artist, because that's 914 00:55:21,690 --> 00:55:24,810 really the most important part, like, people listen to music, 915 00:55:24,810 --> 00:55:27,540 because it means a lot to them. And they want to support 916 00:55:27,750 --> 00:55:30,330 artists, because if they support the artists, and artists can 917 00:55:30,330 --> 00:55:33,750 keep doing what they love. And it's becoming increasingly 918 00:55:33,750 --> 00:55:35,820 harder. It's always been difficult, but it's becoming 919 00:55:35,820 --> 00:55:39,840 increasingly harder today to make any money as an artist, 920 00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:42,780 because I mean, it's bad enough that you're making scraps from 921 00:55:43,260 --> 00:55:46,110 Spotify, and Apple Music and all that shit. But you're also 922 00:55:46,530 --> 00:55:49,050 having a tough time touring, you're having a tough time 923 00:55:49,170 --> 00:55:51,360 really doing anything, you're having to do things like get on 924 00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:55,380 Patreon, and, like, feel the pressure to come up with all 925 00:55:55,380 --> 00:55:58,050 this content, just to be able to, like meet the demand of your 926 00:55:58,050 --> 00:56:01,500 subscribers. And it's just not a good situation. You know, like I 927 00:56:01,500 --> 00:56:03,900 work in the merch business, that's probably the easiest way 928 00:56:03,900 --> 00:56:06,150 to do it. But that's even still a pain in the ass. And it sucks 929 00:56:06,150 --> 00:56:09,390 for people, even sometimes to feel like like, I have to 930 00:56:09,390 --> 00:56:12,690 constantly be shilling my T shirts just so I can like eat or 931 00:56:12,690 --> 00:56:15,750 like buy a ticket gas to get to, you know, to my show in San 932 00:56:15,750 --> 00:56:19,830 Diego or whatever. So yeah, I want to, I want to see a future 933 00:56:20,100 --> 00:56:23,280 player or a lot of players, hopefully that just, you know, 934 00:56:23,310 --> 00:56:26,070 maybe it's coming to genre specific or cure people are 935 00:56:26,070 --> 00:56:28,500 going to players because they're curated in a specific way that 936 00:56:28,500 --> 00:56:32,280 they, they love. But then once they get there, they have a way 937 00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:36,480 to interact through, you know, life savings chats, you know, 938 00:56:36,510 --> 00:56:41,280 basic social stuff. And like Michael said, you're able to 939 00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:44,310 still have that Patreon style experience by being a supporter, 940 00:56:44,310 --> 00:56:46,860 and maybe the more you support somebody, the more you get. But 941 00:56:47,010 --> 00:56:51,030 on the artist side, they're not having to churn out content in 942 00:56:51,030 --> 00:56:54,210 order to maintain those, in order to maintain that support, 943 00:56:54,240 --> 00:56:57,540 Adam Curry: it won't come as a surprise, but I'm not a fan of 944 00:56:57,540 --> 00:57:02,370 locking stuff away for premium access. I mean, that's just my, 945 00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:04,620 my preference has never been that way. And I've done value 946 00:57:04,620 --> 00:57:09,660 for value effectively for over 15 years very successfully. When 947 00:57:09,660 --> 00:57:12,030 I look at all the elements we have, and by the way, we have to 948 00:57:12,030 --> 00:57:15,090 mention again, the music side project from from Steven B, 949 00:57:15,090 --> 00:57:18,390 because it really is a good start into this. But when you 950 00:57:18,390 --> 00:57:23,850 see we've added a third element into value for value in the 951 00:57:23,850 --> 00:57:28,230 value block, which is auto, it hasn't really been implemented. 952 00:57:28,230 --> 00:57:30,600 Or you've I don't know if you've been approved yet. But auto 953 00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:36,360 means the app will allow you to set a subscription type level 954 00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:41,040 payment. So it could be anything I guess, you know, week, day, 955 00:57:41,070 --> 00:57:46,800 month, or when a new track drops or whatever the lit stuff, if an 956 00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:49,860 artist has the capability to go live like we're doing and that 957 00:57:49,860 --> 00:57:53,520 is that's where a lot of value comes in it really that's where 958 00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:56,310 people get excited, you don't need to be playing, you can just 959 00:57:56,310 --> 00:57:59,130 be talking, you know, they can it can be without video with 960 00:57:59,130 --> 00:58:03,360 video, you have all those elements, including now this 961 00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:06,120 chat, which can be the chat for the artists, which is just 962 00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:10,200 there. And you know, as we know, it links to nostril. So there's 963 00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:13,710 all these all these different elements that just need to be 964 00:58:13,710 --> 00:58:20,010 molded into an experience. And what I identify is, when I see 965 00:58:20,700 --> 00:58:24,240 Steven be creating music side project, you know, before even 966 00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:27,660 anything is the content is it's just barely coming. You know, 967 00:58:27,660 --> 00:58:29,910 it's not, it's not like the feeds are automatically 968 00:58:29,910 --> 00:58:34,320 submitted to the index. And you explain perfectly why. But then 969 00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:37,650 I also see Joe Martin who just went, Hey, I'm just gonna, this 970 00:58:37,650 --> 00:58:40,740 fountain thing is kind of working and, and he's blown away 971 00:58:40,740 --> 00:58:44,700 by the amount of value he's receiving over any of the other 972 00:58:44,700 --> 00:58:50,580 platforms. So it feels like we're so it's so there's a lot 973 00:58:50,580 --> 00:58:54,630 of pent up energy. And once we hit that, whatever that that is, 974 00:58:54,630 --> 00:58:58,170 and I don't know, you know, it's going to be a combination of, of 975 00:58:58,230 --> 00:59:03,300 artists or artists, and how they already communicate with their, 976 00:59:03,930 --> 00:59:07,230 with their, with their audience or their base. And some 977 00:59:07,230 --> 00:59:09,900 technology it's going to happen, it's probably been in a 978 00:59:09,900 --> 00:59:12,870 surprising way. You know, I was already blown away by Joe 979 00:59:12,870 --> 00:59:15,720 Martin. And you know, and what, what he sees as the fountain 980 00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:19,320 platform, which of course is much broader with other apps, I 981 00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:21,780 think you're going to be surprised as long as we can keep 982 00:59:21,780 --> 00:59:25,140 implementing these things and someone is showing the way, 983 00:59:25,500 --> 00:59:29,220 because you need that you need an artist to actually do it and 984 00:59:29,580 --> 00:59:33,720 run with scissors, as we say, to get something going. I think I 985 00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:36,000 think it'll just there'll be a flood of the show. Yeah. 986 00:59:36,180 --> 00:59:38,130 Sam Mean: Oh, yeah, that's gonna happen. I mean, that's, that's 987 00:59:38,130 --> 00:59:41,310 why that's why wavelike exists. You know, as Mike was kind of 988 00:59:41,310 --> 00:59:44,250 explaining how I didn't know how to do anything, but I could 989 00:59:44,250 --> 00:59:49,170 figure out through breeze and Sphinx and RSS feed a couple 990 00:59:49,170 --> 00:59:52,260 years ago that's like, oh, I can sort of create streaming money 991 00:59:52,260 --> 00:59:55,290 on this with my music through these podcast players. And it's 992 00:59:55,290 --> 00:59:58,830 super rad and I but I don't know how to build this in for an 993 00:59:58,830 --> 01:00:00,960 experience that's going to work for The artists are like, you 994 01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:05,610 know, hey, he's out there. And now we have wave lake. And so 995 01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:09,300 that's cool. But you need people now, like, shout out to Joe 996 01:00:09,300 --> 01:00:11,880 Martin Joe Martin rules, too, because you need these 997 01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:14,910 advocates, we're gonna need these bridge advocate bands that 998 01:00:14,910 --> 01:00:19,170 are like an artist or, you know, maybe just heard about Bitcoin 999 01:00:19,170 --> 01:00:22,290 on one leg and the bid on the door and Bitcoin. They're trying 1000 01:00:22,290 --> 01:00:25,500 to make money, they're feeling the pain, and they discover this 1001 01:00:25,500 --> 01:00:28,980 stuff, and they start talking about it. And like, every great 1002 01:00:28,980 --> 01:00:32,010 thing, through word of mouth, this is going to all this stuff 1003 01:00:32,010 --> 01:00:34,950 is going to happen. Another cool thing too, I want to, I want to 1004 01:00:34,980 --> 01:00:36,600 mention because I was just talking about this the other 1005 01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:40,470 day, like, I'm super excited for when people start communicating 1006 01:00:40,500 --> 01:00:43,800 in between albums, cycles, even just like, hey, I'm working on 1007 01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:47,130 records, these are my demos with you guys think, and can monetize 1008 01:00:47,130 --> 01:00:50,850 that process to get you through from one album cycle to another 1009 01:00:50,850 --> 01:00:53,550 would typically that's been a really kind of a dry period for 1010 01:00:53,550 --> 01:00:55,440 artists. Yeah, that's, 1011 01:00:55,470 --> 01:00:57,480 Dave Jones: that's the beautiful thing about podcasting is you 1012 01:00:57,480 --> 01:01:01,260 have, you know, and why that why it makes so much sense to layer 1013 01:01:01,470 --> 01:01:06,600 music distribution on to the podcasting sort of guts, is 1014 01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:09,150 because the main podcasters are used to that all the time 1015 01:01:09,150 --> 01:01:13,830 dropping, you know, it's so effortless to drop an extra 1016 01:01:13,830 --> 01:01:18,510 content in your feed. Like it's not a it's not a huge lift. And 1017 01:01:18,510 --> 01:01:23,040 so, you know, you have this sort of like a quick feedback loop 1018 01:01:23,220 --> 01:01:28,500 with your, with your listeners. I think music, you know, the 1019 01:01:28,500 --> 01:01:33,090 more the mute, the more the technology gets out of the way, 1020 01:01:33,780 --> 01:01:41,340 I think you get better music. Yeah, I think there's a lot of I 1021 01:01:41,340 --> 01:01:45,390 guess the beauty of a thing like Spotify or Apple Music, is you 1022 01:01:45,390 --> 01:01:49,530 just tap the app, and you're there. You don't have there's 1023 01:01:49,530 --> 01:01:52,500 not there's not complexity. And so that's where we need to get 1024 01:01:52,500 --> 01:01:58,050 to on the open. The open distribution side, is we need to 1025 01:01:58,050 --> 01:02:01,590 get to that same level where it's, you know, somebody can, 1026 01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:06,630 where I can say, you know, what I can tell one of my kids or, or 1027 01:02:06,630 --> 01:02:09,870 one of my friends, you know, hey, install this, install this 1028 01:02:09,870 --> 01:02:14,640 app. And you and they're all your mute, you know, like, 1029 01:02:14,670 --> 01:02:17,310 there's a whole bunch of music for you to find this brand new. 1030 01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:24,060 Because my kids are in, they're very involved in the local music 1031 01:02:24,060 --> 01:02:26,220 scene, they both have bands and stuff like that, and they both 1032 01:02:26,220 --> 01:02:30,450 play. And so they're all they're already in sort of in the indie 1033 01:02:30,450 --> 01:02:36,270 music culture. And if if there was an an app, where it was 1034 01:02:36,270 --> 01:02:41,730 literally as easy as a Spotify or an Apple Music, but all the 1035 01:02:41,730 --> 01:02:46,110 stuff was from local independent. So you know, self 1036 01:02:46,110 --> 01:02:52,530 sovereign art musicians, they, they would absolutely flocked to 1037 01:02:52,530 --> 01:02:55,950 it. They would use it, they would send boosts, they would do 1038 01:02:55,950 --> 01:03:01,860 all that. But the it can't be a podcast app, quote, unquote. It 1039 01:03:01,860 --> 01:03:05,190 has it can use the podcast infrastructure. But it has to be 1040 01:03:05,190 --> 01:03:09,240 a music app. And but you but the I guess the good thing is you 1041 01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:12,300 can take advantage of all the things that podcasting does 1042 01:03:12,300 --> 01:03:16,230 well, like, you don't, it doesn't have to be stream only, 1043 01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:19,560 like one of the great things about podcasts and podcast apps 1044 01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:22,950 as they they already what they want to do they want to download 1045 01:03:22,950 --> 01:03:26,370 the episode for you. They want to download the tracks so that 1046 01:03:26,370 --> 01:03:29,460 you don't get dropped dropouts, when you walk into a, you know, 1047 01:03:29,490 --> 01:03:32,760 an elevator or something. Like there's a lot of those things 1048 01:03:32,790 --> 01:03:36,360 that they already have, you know, the EQ, they have, you 1049 01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:38,790 know, complex audio processing, and that kind of stuff in there 1050 01:03:38,790 --> 01:03:41,520 to make to make stuff sound better. There's a lot of things 1051 01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:45,930 that they are really good at. They can be, they can make the 1052 01:03:45,930 --> 01:03:48,150 experience even better than the big apps. 1053 01:03:50,820 --> 01:03:53,280 Michael Rhee: Yeah, I think I think that discovery element is 1054 01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:56,340 really important too. Because, you know, with all the mega 1055 01:03:56,340 --> 01:04:01,200 streaming services, I don't know. I'm sure everyone else 1056 01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:04,710 gets the same feeling that they're being kind of herded 1057 01:04:04,740 --> 01:04:10,650 into the same 10 artists yet or which way you try and turn your 1058 01:04:12,120 --> 01:04:14,370 Adam Curry: songs in Spotify owns the rights to, 1059 01:04:15,029 --> 01:04:17,339 Michael Rhee: yeah, hey, it all worked out in the end, because 1060 01:04:17,339 --> 01:04:21,119 the labels on Spotify and Spotify will funnel people to 1061 01:04:21,119 --> 01:04:26,339 the labels work right. And so and so I think what's really 1062 01:04:26,339 --> 01:04:30,509 exciting about sort of open distribution and kind of 1063 01:04:30,509 --> 01:04:33,449 different clients being able to curate content in different 1064 01:04:33,449 --> 01:04:37,709 ways, but all on the same kind of foundational base layer of 1065 01:04:37,709 --> 01:04:43,139 source material. We have the opportunity to create a diverse 1066 01:04:43,139 --> 01:04:46,919 experiences for different people depending on what you like, if 1067 01:04:46,919 --> 01:04:49,349 you're interested in finding something new becomes a little 1068 01:04:49,349 --> 01:04:54,389 bit less of a, you know, a hunting expedition and more of 1069 01:04:54,389 --> 01:04:58,409 something that you can kind of count on certain curators or 1070 01:04:58,409 --> 01:05:02,849 different sites to be able to do I think that's, that could be a 1071 01:05:02,849 --> 01:05:07,139 really exciting time. But you know, maybe a revival of music. 1072 01:05:08,369 --> 01:05:10,949 From what we've seen of the what happened over the last decade. 1073 01:05:11,250 --> 01:05:13,500 Adam Curry: Also, I'd like to remind us that, you know, I'm 1074 01:05:13,500 --> 01:05:17,220 not a kid anymore. I don't think Dave can qualify. But you guys, 1075 01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:21,510 but it's always amazing how we'll go back to the days of 1076 01:05:21,510 --> 01:05:26,670 Napster and Limewire. And, you know, I saw my daughter, that 1077 01:05:26,670 --> 01:05:29,580 she, she was looking for stuff, or she heard about something, 1078 01:05:29,610 --> 01:05:32,970 and they would install the most complicated things with really 1079 01:05:32,970 --> 01:05:36,810 no great player experience or anything like that, just to be 1080 01:05:36,810 --> 01:05:40,080 able to, to get what everyone else was talking about. You 1081 01:05:40,080 --> 01:05:44,850 know, it's like, sometimes we're very good at overthinking what 1082 01:05:44,850 --> 01:05:49,710 the experience has to be. And, and I think the content always 1083 01:05:49,710 --> 01:05:53,190 speaks for itself. And just like with podcasting, you need to 1084 01:05:53,190 --> 01:05:56,070 have the artists themselves the bands, they need to be saying, 1085 01:05:56,070 --> 01:06:00,210 Hey, check it out here. And yeah, look, you're always your 1086 01:06:00,210 --> 01:06:03,570 own marketing, you know, you've got a band, you've got it, 1087 01:06:03,570 --> 01:06:05,820 you've got a market, you've got to you got to let people know 1088 01:06:05,820 --> 01:06:08,190 what you're doing. And if this is a place where you can get 1089 01:06:08,190 --> 01:06:15,120 value back easily, we, I hope everyone can get out of them. No 1090 01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:19,530 one is going to be Beyonce anymore. Beyonce is Beyonce. You 1091 01:06:19,530 --> 01:06:23,460 know, it's just the percentage. And the likelihood of that 1092 01:06:23,460 --> 01:06:27,090 happening is, is as likely as anyone becoming the next Joe 1093 01:06:27,090 --> 01:06:31,410 Rogan. It just doesn't work that way anymore. But you don't need 1094 01:06:31,410 --> 01:06:35,970 it. Because your community, your 1000 fans, your 2000 fans who 1095 01:06:35,970 --> 01:06:38,940 follow you who love your stuff, they will support you, all you 1096 01:06:38,940 --> 01:06:41,910 got to do is learn how to ask and have the mechanism right 1097 01:06:41,910 --> 01:06:45,210 there, which is what have the boost button or the ZAP button 1098 01:06:45,210 --> 01:06:48,270 or whatever it is have it right there. So it's easy for people 1099 01:06:48,270 --> 01:06:49,800 to hit and hit and go. 1100 01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:53,460 Sam Mean: Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's like, it's like how touring 1101 01:06:53,490 --> 01:06:56,610 works, you know, like you, there's bands that have managed 1102 01:06:56,610 --> 01:07:00,090 to have careers and survive. For decades on being able to play 1103 01:07:00,090 --> 01:07:02,880 club shows around the country, you know, it's like, we can go 1104 01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:08,820 out every spring and fall and play 45 shows in and make a 1105 01:07:08,820 --> 01:07:12,900 living off of it. It's going to be cool, when that the same 1106 01:07:12,900 --> 01:07:15,300 amount of people, you know, you can take those 10,000 people or 1107 01:07:15,300 --> 01:07:18,270 8000 people and survive as an artist instead of having to 1108 01:07:18,600 --> 01:07:21,150 dream big and become the next Beyonce or some kind of mega 1109 01:07:21,150 --> 01:07:23,490 superstar. You're going to need millions and millions and 1110 01:07:23,490 --> 01:07:26,070 millions of people. I mean, even now on Spotify, it's hilarious. 1111 01:07:26,070 --> 01:07:28,650 Even with millions of streams, you're still not making any 1112 01:07:28,650 --> 01:07:32,820 money. So yeah, this this is just this gonna change 1113 01:07:32,820 --> 01:07:33,510 everything. Hopefully, 1114 01:07:33,540 --> 01:07:35,130 Adam Curry: I have a question for you guys. This is probably 1115 01:07:35,130 --> 01:07:39,420 the hardest part, I would presume. How do you vet what is 1116 01:07:39,570 --> 01:07:44,910 being uploaded? So that people aren't uploading, you know, 1117 01:07:45,150 --> 01:07:48,150 Spotify had this problem, you know, oh, here's a movie they 1118 01:07:48,150 --> 01:07:50,460 uploaded, you know, how do you how do you vet all that? 1119 01:07:51,330 --> 01:07:53,580 Sam Mean: I mean, luckily, because everyone else had this 1120 01:07:53,580 --> 01:07:55,710 problem before us. I mean, right now, it's super easy, because 1121 01:07:55,710 --> 01:07:58,230 it's not things are not being uploaded at a pace that we can't 1122 01:07:58,230 --> 01:08:06,300 just manage. But you know, there are tools, like, you know, what 1123 01:08:06,300 --> 01:08:10,230 are they called, like, Michael helping out here? Like, like, 1124 01:08:10,380 --> 01:08:16,890 Shazam? Yeah, like, it's just recognizes? Yeah. 1125 01:08:18,060 --> 01:08:21,870 Michael Rhee: Yeah. But I think verification is a big part of 1126 01:08:22,860 --> 01:08:27,450 not only ensuring that the artist who owns material is the 1127 01:08:27,450 --> 01:08:32,100 one who's uploading it, but I think also down the road, in 1128 01:08:32,100 --> 01:08:36,420 terms of making sure as a fan, that my payment is going to the 1129 01:08:36,420 --> 01:08:39,840 correct individual, you know, now we have keys and 1130 01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:43,800 cryptography and all that, to help us verify that, you know, 1131 01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:46,020 we're actually paying the person who made the work. I think 1132 01:08:46,020 --> 01:08:48,660 that's a that was a big possibility, too. 1133 01:08:49,020 --> 01:08:51,270 Sam Mean: That was one really cool and inspiring thing that I 1134 01:08:51,270 --> 01:08:54,660 saw on there, in the very early days of the nap of the master 1135 01:08:54,660 --> 01:08:58,830 bedroom was, you know, when I first logged on, there were 10 1136 01:08:58,830 --> 01:09:03,480 Jack Dorsey's, probably. And everyone was like, which one's 1137 01:09:03,480 --> 01:09:05,850 the right Jack Dorsey, and then you're looking at follow list to 1138 01:09:05,850 --> 01:09:08,550 see who's okay. It's like, I think maybe this person is 1139 01:09:08,550 --> 01:09:11,310 following this person, they probably know, you know, but 1140 01:09:11,310 --> 01:09:15,300 then they fix that really click with one of the new 57, which I 1141 01:09:15,300 --> 01:09:17,490 still think needs a lot of work. That's not a perfect way to 1142 01:09:17,490 --> 01:09:20,220 verify people, but to be able to use a domain easily for 1143 01:09:20,220 --> 01:09:23,790 verification. That was least inspiring in the sense that it's 1144 01:09:23,790 --> 01:09:26,550 like, these problems seem like they're huge, but you can do a 1145 01:09:26,550 --> 01:09:29,100 quick fix for the time being until you can until you come up 1146 01:09:29,100 --> 01:09:31,560 with the ultimate solution that's going to last 1147 01:09:31,590 --> 01:09:34,470 Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah. And I think that that's another good 1148 01:09:34,470 --> 01:09:38,100 thing about about podcasting is It's decentralized but as 1149 01:09:38,100 --> 01:09:41,940 decentralized through it's almost like activity Pub is It's 1150 01:09:41,940 --> 01:09:51,180 decentralized sort of towers of, of control. So you have because 1151 01:09:51,210 --> 01:09:55,590 pure decentralization, I mean, we all know pure, pure 100% 1152 01:09:55,590 --> 01:10:00,330 decentralized things is very, very difficult. Like yeah, Like 1153 01:10:00,330 --> 01:10:03,690 monumentally difficult so much that so many people have been 1154 01:10:03,690 --> 01:10:06,990 trying for years and years and years, and it still has 1155 01:10:06,990 --> 01:10:09,810 drawbacks. I mean, you know, I've been vocal about all the 1156 01:10:09,810 --> 01:10:14,580 drawbacks about noster that bother me. But the thing about 1157 01:10:14,610 --> 01:10:19,140 the thing about podcasting is, is that you have, you know, 1158 01:10:19,140 --> 01:10:23,550 hosting companies did, you have a ton of them how all that, you 1159 01:10:23,550 --> 01:10:26,970 know, wave wave Lake is a hosting company, you have all 1160 01:10:26,970 --> 01:10:30,600 these hosting companies. And so you have a measure, sort of like 1161 01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:34,950 Mastodon, you have these, you have lots of people, and it is 1162 01:10:34,950 --> 01:10:41,040 decentralized, but it's not so decentralized, that there's too 1163 01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:46,110 much pressure to get everything right on, on the individual. So, 1164 01:10:46,110 --> 01:10:48,930 you know, the individuals are sort of like proxied through 1165 01:10:48,930 --> 01:10:54,930 these points of control, which, which makes it, it makes it 1166 01:10:54,930 --> 01:11:00,150 easier, it's sort of like a, it's a compromise. That's, this 1167 01:11:00,150 --> 01:11:02,400 sort of ends up being good for everybody. Because you're, you 1168 01:11:02,400 --> 01:11:07,710 know, when I know that I'm not literally getting, you know, a 1169 01:11:07,710 --> 01:11:11,070 million feeds a day from all over from every Tom, Dick and 1170 01:11:11,070 --> 01:11:15,150 Harry, you know, that exists, like, so I'm getting fades from 1171 01:11:15,150 --> 01:11:19,050 wavelike. I'm getting them from Buzzsprout. And so, I think that 1172 01:11:19,140 --> 01:11:22,860 it slows the pace down. And like you said, it makes it where you 1173 01:11:22,860 --> 01:11:27,240 can have a little bit like, you can have some sanity about this 1174 01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:31,170 thing and not have to feel like you need to solve every problem 1175 01:11:31,170 --> 01:11:32,130 that exists. 1176 01:11:33,330 --> 01:11:35,700 Sam Mean: Yeah, that was, that was some really good advice that 1177 01:11:35,700 --> 01:11:40,650 I got from from Roy breeze early on, he was one of the people 1178 01:11:40,650 --> 01:11:43,440 that I talked to first about this, just because breeze was 1179 01:11:43,440 --> 01:11:48,690 one of the first you know, things bright, was able to plug 1180 01:11:48,690 --> 01:11:54,270 music into and stream stats over over it. So. But in the end, the 1181 01:11:54,270 --> 01:11:57,000 early conversations with Roy was like, you know, how do we do 1182 01:11:57,000 --> 01:11:59,670 this? How do I get someone to build this? Like, what will you 1183 01:11:59,670 --> 01:12:04,380 put this in breeze? How do we figure this out. And the biggest 1184 01:12:04,380 --> 01:12:06,840 thing back then was like, We got to take these guys down, you 1185 01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:10,260 know, like Spotify and Apple musics of the world. And he was 1186 01:12:10,260 --> 01:12:14,280 just like, Hey, dude, like, chill out, you take them down, 1187 01:12:14,910 --> 01:12:16,950 you don't even take them, they'll take themselves down 1188 01:12:16,950 --> 01:12:19,500 like this is the better model, just all we got to do is just 1189 01:12:19,500 --> 01:12:21,810 keep working on the better model. I mean, which is so true. 1190 01:12:21,810 --> 01:12:24,870 And I'm a Bitcoin, dude. So like, I know that perfectly 1191 01:12:24,870 --> 01:12:28,230 well. If you just play the slow game on these things, if it's a 1192 01:12:28,230 --> 01:12:30,720 better system, it's going to work. And if we keep adapting to 1193 01:12:30,720 --> 01:12:34,770 these things, these these technologies and make this 1194 01:12:34,770 --> 01:12:38,640 better system even better, and everyone else is on, you know, 1195 01:12:39,120 --> 01:12:42,930 the slow moving train from the prehistoric times, they're not 1196 01:12:42,930 --> 01:12:44,640 going to be able to keep up and then by the time it comes 1197 01:12:44,640 --> 01:12:47,190 around, they're not going to hit them. And that's, that's 1198 01:12:47,190 --> 01:12:50,430 probably the way this is going to work out. Someone asked, we 1199 01:12:50,430 --> 01:12:54,780 were in Nashville, earlier this week for a design center thing, 1200 01:12:54,780 --> 01:12:57,000 and someone asked, you know, like, what we would think about 1201 01:12:57,000 --> 01:13:01,560 Spotify implementing value for value or the Lightning Network? 1202 01:13:01,830 --> 01:13:04,800 That's not, it's just not going to happen? No, it's not gonna 1203 01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:07,590 happen. If they can't make money. They can make money now 1204 01:13:07,590 --> 01:13:10,410 there's no way they can make money. If they're being fair, 1205 01:13:10,440 --> 01:13:13,890 you know? So it just, it's just not likely. It's not It's 1206 01:13:13,890 --> 01:13:16,320 incredibly unlikely for that to happen. What's more likely is 1207 01:13:16,320 --> 01:13:20,700 we'll just create a better system. In doing that, it'll 1208 01:13:20,700 --> 01:13:23,280 inspire other people to create even cooler stuff and things 1209 01:13:23,280 --> 01:13:26,430 will just things will just slowly go that way. You know, it 1210 01:13:26,430 --> 01:13:29,250 just might take some time. All this stuff takes time. nostre is 1211 01:13:29,250 --> 01:13:32,040 going to take time Lightning Lightning, it's we're five years 1212 01:13:32,040 --> 01:13:34,680 into lightning, it's still still early. Oh, 1213 01:13:34,890 --> 01:13:39,210 Adam Curry: yes. Oh, yeah. This it takes a lot of time. But when 1214 01:13:39,210 --> 01:13:44,310 I see the, what has happened with value for value in in just 1215 01:13:44,430 --> 01:13:49,830 two years, even the biggest detractors who've come around, I 1216 01:13:50,850 --> 01:13:54,900 mean, it Yeah, takes time. But it is a logarithmic scale. It 1217 01:13:54,900 --> 01:13:57,780 goes up fast. At a certain point, it just moves it really 1218 01:13:57,780 --> 01:13:58,320 moves. 1219 01:13:58,680 --> 01:13:59,670 Sam Mean: Yeah, slowly. 1220 01:14:01,140 --> 01:14:03,240 Michael Rhee: I think one of you guys are saying like there's 1221 01:14:03,240 --> 01:14:06,690 pent up demand for these kinds of products out there. And I 1222 01:14:06,690 --> 01:14:11,640 think, you know, the early adopter crowd, who's understood 1223 01:14:11,640 --> 01:14:14,220 who understands value for value, who understands what we're 1224 01:14:14,220 --> 01:14:19,440 trying to do a wave like, you know, I just get the sense that 1225 01:14:19,500 --> 01:14:22,410 they've been waiting for something like this to happen 1226 01:14:22,410 --> 01:14:27,780 for a while. And they get it and I think it's just a matter of 1227 01:14:27,780 --> 01:14:30,750 time before you know other people kind of 1228 01:14:31,350 --> 01:14:32,100 Sam Mean: follow along. 1229 01:14:33,810 --> 01:14:35,430 Adam Curry: Yep, they are gonna have to do some work though. 1230 01:14:35,430 --> 01:14:38,910 Freedom doesn't come without that extra step. That's that's 1231 01:14:38,940 --> 01:14:41,340 what it always boils down to. And we see the people who are 1232 01:14:41,340 --> 01:14:44,880 successful with value for value in podcasting, you know, 1233 01:14:44,880 --> 01:14:47,400 they've, they've taken that extra step you got you got to 1234 01:14:47,400 --> 01:14:52,380 dive in. But one thing I know, is the excitement of having, you 1235 01:14:52,380 --> 01:14:55,230 know, even if it's an Alby wallet, the excitement of 1236 01:14:55,440 --> 01:14:58,680 putting something out there, whatever it is, and seeing 1237 01:14:58,710 --> 01:15:03,090 Satoshis drip in while people are actually listening or 1238 01:15:03,090 --> 01:15:05,880 enjoying on the other end, I think there's nothing like it. 1239 01:15:07,170 --> 01:15:09,960 Michael Rhee: Yeah, that's that's there's no comparable 1240 01:15:09,960 --> 01:15:13,440 experience to that. I was one of the musicians we were talking to 1241 01:15:13,890 --> 01:15:16,830 a Nashville was was saying that exact same thing where he was 1242 01:15:16,830 --> 01:15:20,130 saying, you know, if I put my stuff up on a major streaming 1243 01:15:20,130 --> 01:15:27,060 site, I might see a check from them for a few cents after it 1244 01:15:27,060 --> 01:15:31,410 was actually listened to, and he's like, but on your side, 1245 01:15:31,530 --> 01:15:35,220 I'll get boosts I got boosts, like the first day I had music 1246 01:15:35,250 --> 01:15:40,350 on the site. And that kind of, especially for an artist who so 1247 01:15:40,350 --> 01:15:44,580 much of the work is sort of inside your own head, or like 1248 01:15:44,580 --> 01:15:48,000 with your bandmates. And you're sort of just like, you're trying 1249 01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:50,820 to make the best thing possible. But in the end, you have no idea 1250 01:15:50,820 --> 01:15:53,580 if anyone's gonna like it, you love it, but you have no idea 1251 01:15:53,580 --> 01:15:56,760 what it's gonna be like when you put it on the world. And so that 1252 01:15:56,940 --> 01:15:59,640 instantaneous feedback loop where you can publish something 1253 01:15:59,640 --> 01:16:02,820 you've been working on and have sort of put your heart and soul 1254 01:16:02,820 --> 01:16:06,750 into and to see that like, returned, right when people hear 1255 01:16:06,750 --> 01:16:10,740 it. I think that's a that's a huge game changer in terms of 1256 01:16:11,070 --> 01:16:14,490 motivating that person to like, keep going, you know, you're 1257 01:16:14,490 --> 01:16:15,990 doing something right. 1258 01:16:16,920 --> 01:16:21,510 Adam Curry: Do you even see streams created on Spotify in 1259 01:16:21,510 --> 01:16:24,330 real time? Or is that also an end of month report? 1260 01:16:25,740 --> 01:16:29,550 Sam Mean: You can see like through aggregates like TuneCore 1261 01:16:29,580 --> 01:16:32,130 district kid date, you can you can definitely cannot see it in 1262 01:16:32,130 --> 01:16:35,850 real time. You can see it sort of like maybe a 24 hour delay, 1263 01:16:35,850 --> 01:16:40,350 you can get estimate estimated streams. But it's the there's no 1264 01:16:40,350 --> 01:16:44,160 depth to it. It doesn't feel you know, you feel nothing from it. 1265 01:16:44,190 --> 01:16:46,470 It's hard to really feel anything for the music business, 1266 01:16:46,470 --> 01:16:49,800 just like soul sucking lightness, lifeless experience. 1267 01:16:49,830 --> 01:16:54,000 Overall. I've been doing it long enough to know. But yeah, it's, 1268 01:16:54,630 --> 01:16:58,170 it's it is so it's it's the thrill. I mean, it sounds so 1269 01:16:58,170 --> 01:17:01,410 cheesy, but it like it really is just because it's like, oh, 1270 01:17:01,440 --> 01:17:04,590 you're, you know, I'm yeah, I'm in my early 40s. I've been 1271 01:17:04,590 --> 01:17:09,330 making music since I was a kid. And I'm, like, rejuvenated by 1272 01:17:09,330 --> 01:17:12,960 this, I want to make more music, just so I can explain this. 1273 01:17:13,200 --> 01:17:15,480 Because like when you get, like when you get you know, it's like 1274 01:17:15,510 --> 01:17:18,330 records that I made 10 years ago, are getting boost and 1275 01:17:18,330 --> 01:17:20,190 getting comments, people are discovering it for the first 1276 01:17:20,190 --> 01:17:24,000 time. When normally I know how it goes, you make a record. And 1277 01:17:24,030 --> 01:17:26,970 if you know, unless you're incredibly lucky, it kind of 1278 01:17:26,970 --> 01:17:30,300 just goes back on the pile. And people come and come back to it 1279 01:17:30,300 --> 01:17:32,640 every once in awhile, but you never get that feedback again, 1280 01:17:32,670 --> 01:17:35,250 you know, unless you do something like go on tour, play 1281 01:17:35,250 --> 01:17:36,270 the songs do the whole. 1282 01:17:36,480 --> 01:17:40,290 Adam Curry: That's a good point. I mean, I even see it was with 1283 01:17:40,290 --> 01:17:44,010 podcast episodes. You know, people go back and they listened 1284 01:17:44,010 --> 01:17:48,450 they start some start at one now, you know, but they people 1285 01:17:48,450 --> 01:17:51,450 will listen to all kinds of older material and then still 1286 01:17:51,450 --> 01:17:54,450 send a booster gram or something like that you see it? You know, 1287 01:17:54,450 --> 01:17:57,690 she's for a minute stream coming in? Oh, yeah, it's phenomenal. 1288 01:17:57,720 --> 01:18:01,110 It's a wish everyone could could witness this. I wish you could 1289 01:18:01,110 --> 01:18:04,470 have that feeling people. Everybody needs to see like, get 1290 01:18:04,470 --> 01:18:09,390 the feeling. Got no, no, good. No, go ahead, Dave, please. Oh, 1291 01:18:09,420 --> 01:18:11,790 Dave Jones: I was just gonna say, Michael, you've got enough. 1292 01:18:12,120 --> 01:18:15,210 You've got enough coding experience now with creating 1293 01:18:15,210 --> 01:18:20,100 podcast feeds and doing that kind of thing. What? What do you 1294 01:18:20,100 --> 01:18:27,330 think? I'll see how don't want to ask this. Do you see anything 1295 01:18:27,750 --> 01:18:33,450 missing? Or do you need? What do you think music? As a platform 1296 01:18:33,450 --> 01:18:36,630 layered on top of of a podcast distribution? What? What do you 1297 01:18:36,630 --> 01:18:40,050 think is? Is there anything missing? Or is there a thing? 1298 01:18:40,080 --> 01:18:43,260 Are there things that you can think of that you would love to 1299 01:18:43,260 --> 01:18:47,310 see done? But you don't know how or you don't think they exist? 1300 01:18:48,750 --> 01:18:53,190 Michael Rhee: Yeah, I mean, I can say, first of all, that you 1301 01:18:53,190 --> 01:18:58,290 guys have done a great job with the spec. I'm not a spec guy. So 1302 01:18:58,320 --> 01:19:03,060 to be able to go to GitHub, and just see it all laid out and see 1303 01:19:03,060 --> 01:19:06,810 the motivation and the rationale behind all the decisions. That's 1304 01:19:06,810 --> 01:19:11,880 been incredibly useful and valuable for me. As far as, you 1305 01:19:11,880 --> 01:19:17,370 know, the way that I guess the way I think about using the 1306 01:19:17,370 --> 01:19:22,320 feed, and the two that Oh, spec for music, the way I always 1307 01:19:22,380 --> 01:19:27,690 approach these kinds of things is I don't want to create a 1308 01:19:27,690 --> 01:19:32,490 modification to a widely adopted spec unless it's absolutely 1309 01:19:32,490 --> 01:19:36,960 necessary. Because if that many people already have agreed upon 1310 01:19:36,990 --> 01:19:43,140 a certain template or a certain description for these fields, 1311 01:19:43,680 --> 01:19:46,230 you know, you better have a dead end. And this is I think, this 1312 01:19:46,230 --> 01:19:48,630 is an article I found through you about like, you know, 1313 01:19:48,630 --> 01:19:51,540 standards on the internet. You know, I think like, you better 1314 01:19:51,540 --> 01:19:55,260 have a damn good reason and really need to make a change if 1315 01:19:55,260 --> 01:19:58,860 you want to force everyone else to follow that change with you. 1316 01:19:58,860 --> 01:20:02,940 And so the The way I see it, you know, like, I think Adams talked 1317 01:20:02,940 --> 01:20:08,430 about this too, like, what is an album? You know, if not just 1318 01:20:08,460 --> 01:20:13,620 like a show, right? And what is a track on an album? You know, 1319 01:20:13,680 --> 01:20:17,160 it's just the same thing as an episode in that show. And so 1320 01:20:17,400 --> 01:20:21,390 we've been just trying to leverage what exists and just 1321 01:20:21,390 --> 01:20:25,530 use it in a way that logically that logically maps to music. 1322 01:20:25,920 --> 01:20:29,610 And I think it works. I don't think, as far as I can tell, I 1323 01:20:29,610 --> 01:20:31,800 don't think there's much we need to change. And I know there's 1324 01:20:32,100 --> 01:20:34,470 options in there for like transcripts. Right? I mean, you 1325 01:20:34,470 --> 01:20:37,230 could easily put lyrics in there. Or maybe there's two 1326 01:20:37,230 --> 01:20:38,550 separate things, right. I don't know. But 1327 01:20:39,270 --> 01:20:41,340 Adam Curry: an album Mark can come back finally. 1328 01:20:42,450 --> 01:20:44,100 Michael Rhee: Yeah, and then yeah. And then you have, you 1329 01:20:44,100 --> 01:20:48,030 know, podcast show art is album, I mean, all these things can be 1330 01:20:48,030 --> 01:20:51,390 easily translated. I think anyone can make the can make the 1331 01:20:51,390 --> 01:20:55,500 leap pretty easily. And so yeah, as far as the limit lacking I 1332 01:20:55,500 --> 01:20:58,560 would say, there's, there's more than enough there to do music 1333 01:20:58,560 --> 01:20:59,160 and more. 1334 01:20:59,730 --> 01:21:02,040 Dave Jones: What let me ask you about that on the transcript 1335 01:21:02,040 --> 01:21:04,950 side, because what do y'all do LG lyrics now? 1336 01:21:05,250 --> 01:21:10,410 Michael Rhee: Any? No, we? Yeah, I mean, we're pretty small team. 1337 01:21:10,770 --> 01:21:14,190 We actually just hired one other developer and brought him on And 1338 01:21:14,190 --> 01:21:18,120 alas, Oh, congratulations. Thank you. That's been a it's been a 1339 01:21:18,330 --> 01:21:22,680 big, it's been a big advantage. And it's also a big change. Just 1340 01:21:22,710 --> 01:21:25,410 you know, having a third person join us. But yeah, it's been 1341 01:21:25,410 --> 01:21:29,850 great. Josh, if you're listening, you're awesome, man. 1342 01:21:31,560 --> 01:21:32,430 Sam Mean: Thank you, Josh. 1343 01:21:33,840 --> 01:21:37,830 Michael Rhee: But we love you, Josh. You rocks. You totally 1344 01:21:37,830 --> 01:21:42,750 rocks. But yeah, I think I'm sorry. I lost train of thought 1345 01:21:42,750 --> 01:21:43,200 there was yeah, 1346 01:21:43,200 --> 01:21:46,710 Dave Jones: like a deal. Like, how do you handle lyrics? Do you 1347 01:21:46,740 --> 01:21:50,460 do? Do you do anything about generation? Or do you allow your 1348 01:21:50,460 --> 01:21:53,490 artists to submit lyrics or ahead? What is your plan for 1349 01:21:53,490 --> 01:21:53,790 that? 1350 01:21:54,510 --> 01:21:57,330 Michael Rhee: I think we would, I think eventually will allow 1351 01:21:57,330 --> 01:22:01,500 artists to submit their lyrics. And then I think there's also a 1352 01:22:01,500 --> 01:22:07,950 way to timecode them if I'm not mistaken, in the Yeah, so that 1353 01:22:07,950 --> 01:22:11,550 would be great to have not only the lyrics available, but also 1354 01:22:11,550 --> 01:22:15,780 you know, cuts of a track with the song as the as the person is 1355 01:22:15,780 --> 01:22:20,580 listening to it. Yeah, so I would I would love to see that 1356 01:22:20,700 --> 01:22:21,540 in the future. 1357 01:22:22,379 --> 01:22:24,599 Sam Mean: Okay, it'd be cool to use the transcripts to have it 1358 01:22:24,599 --> 01:22:27,689 auto generated and then give give the artists the ability to 1359 01:22:27,689 --> 01:22:30,269 go in and edit the transcript. If, for some reason pick 1360 01:22:30,269 --> 01:22:33,779 something up from I've used those before, and like, you 1361 01:22:33,779 --> 01:22:37,649 know, auto auto transcribers, and like, their 99% there, but 1362 01:22:37,649 --> 01:22:39,899 sometimes they get things a little bit goofy, it'd be cool 1363 01:22:39,899 --> 01:22:42,539 to be able to adjust it but have that stuff all automatically 1364 01:22:42,539 --> 01:22:46,049 there. At least the start would be great. 1365 01:22:46,200 --> 01:22:48,180 Adam Curry: If you guys don't mind. I'd like to read a couple 1366 01:22:48,180 --> 01:22:50,490 of booster grants that have been coming in. People have been 1367 01:22:50,490 --> 01:22:53,940 asking some questions making some comments. And you've 1368 01:22:53,940 --> 01:23:00,510 probably heard the pew pew so we'll kick it off with hard hat 1369 01:23:00,510 --> 01:23:05,070 thinking hard hat one a 101. Boosting from curio Kassar, it 1370 01:23:05,070 --> 01:23:08,790 just says boosting fun, of course, take that. another row 1371 01:23:08,790 --> 01:23:13,080 of ducks tu tu tu tu from hard hat. Mike Dell keep on running 1372 01:23:13,080 --> 01:23:19,710 with scissors go podcasting. With Freedom boost 1776 Steven B 1373 01:23:20,370 --> 01:23:24,480 would who doesn't know him curio caster music side project 1374 01:23:24,480 --> 01:23:29,010 sovereign feeds 3333. And he says 10 songs is one of my 1375 01:23:29,010 --> 01:23:31,860 favorite new albums, which I think is cool. Yeah, I think 1376 01:23:31,860 --> 01:23:34,860 he's been promoting that as well. Dred Scott. The Bruce 1377 01:23:34,860 --> 01:23:40,590 Wayne of podcasting. 2.0 77,777 SATs just boosting for the 1378 01:23:40,590 --> 01:23:42,420 boost. Thank you dress. 1379 01:23:42,450 --> 01:23:45,720 Dave Jones: It was almost a Satoshi slam but he was 11,001 1380 01:23:45,720 --> 01:23:48,780 he was a satchel of Richard's away from Satoshi slant. Holy 1381 01:23:48,780 --> 01:23:55,830 Adam Curry: crap. Oh, I like how you calculated that you had that 1382 01:23:55,830 --> 01:23:58,380 ready to today if you were ready for that one. That was ready. 1383 01:23:58,410 --> 01:24:02,670 Blueberry 17,776 Big freedom boost I want to give big thanks 1384 01:24:02,670 --> 01:24:06,450 to Sam for guidance through setting up a BTC pay server. The 1385 01:24:06,450 --> 01:24:09,540 lightning dot store website is amazing. And seeing it was the 1386 01:24:09,540 --> 01:24:13,650 kick we needed for BTS and the V for V swag is going to be a hot 1387 01:24:13,650 --> 01:24:19,890 wet summer of garage printing. All right. Blueberry, Steven B 1388 01:24:19,890 --> 01:24:22,980 comes back in with a short row of ducks. What are your ideas on 1389 01:24:22,980 --> 01:24:27,180 categorizing music by genre to make search for music by type 1390 01:24:27,210 --> 01:24:31,770 easier, as I guess is a question for for both you guys. And maybe 1391 01:24:31,770 --> 01:24:32,430 even Dave 1392 01:24:33,840 --> 01:24:35,250 Michael Rhee: That's yeah, that's Yeah, question. 1393 01:24:35,730 --> 01:24:37,380 Sam Mean: It is a great we've we've had some good 1394 01:24:37,380 --> 01:24:41,340 conversations in our telegram chat about just the concept of 1395 01:24:41,970 --> 01:24:46,020 genres, you know, what they what they really are, we definitely 1396 01:24:46,020 --> 01:24:50,310 need to work on some kind of filtering. But it's tough to 1397 01:24:50,310 --> 01:24:53,550 know exactly how to do that because it's you sort of have to 1398 01:24:53,550 --> 01:24:58,650 predefined a lot of them I think or else you can get a lot of 1399 01:24:58,650 --> 01:25:03,300 duplicates and goofiness. And in just the way things are 1400 01:25:03,300 --> 01:25:06,360 formatted and stuff, but I think that's a tough one because you 1401 01:25:06,360 --> 01:25:08,910 don't want to, you don't want to leave anybody out. But you also 1402 01:25:08,910 --> 01:25:10,650 want to be able to filter through this stuff, especially 1403 01:25:10,650 --> 01:25:12,000 as the library begins to grow. 1404 01:25:12,150 --> 01:25:14,040 Adam Curry: Is that something that is self selecting, though? 1405 01:25:14,040 --> 01:25:17,130 I mean, it's always been a bone of contention with podcasting as 1406 01:25:17,130 --> 01:25:20,280 well, what category? What type of podcast is this? I mean, I 1407 01:25:20,280 --> 01:25:21,960 don't know. Dave, do you have any thoughts on that? 1408 01:25:22,440 --> 01:25:24,960 Dave Jones: Well, it's it to me this, this all goes back to 1409 01:25:24,960 --> 01:25:29,010 discoverability. Problem and discoverability. I will say 1410 01:25:29,010 --> 01:25:33,420 problem in quotes. Because the issue when you when you want to 1411 01:25:33,420 --> 01:25:36,120 categorize something, the only reason you categorize it is so 1412 01:25:36,120 --> 01:25:40,440 you can find it later or so somebody else can find it. By 1413 01:25:40,440 --> 01:25:43,680 Category instead of if, when they don't know what they're 1414 01:25:43,680 --> 01:25:47,820 looking for. So if you have in that only really works, if you 1415 01:25:47,820 --> 01:25:52,890 have, if you go in there and choose, let's just say no metal 1416 01:25:52,890 --> 01:25:55,650 core to go in there. And that's your genre. And there's six 1417 01:25:55,650 --> 01:25:59,160 albums there, that's great. You can discover new new music that 1418 01:25:59,160 --> 01:26:02,640 way, if you choose metal core, and there's 18,000 albums, you 1419 01:26:02,640 --> 01:26:05,010 might as well just go home, you can't you're never gonna You're 1420 01:26:05,010 --> 01:26:09,570 not gonna find anything. So like, category, like I agree 1421 01:26:09,570 --> 01:26:15,480 with you all, genre category is only useful to a certain volume. 1422 01:26:16,230 --> 01:26:20,310 And then you're just really, it just kind of falls off. So I 1423 01:26:20,310 --> 01:26:23,820 tend not, I tend to get dis disheartened by trying to even 1424 01:26:23,820 --> 01:26:26,100 work on it. And I always kind of bail out. 1425 01:26:26,130 --> 01:26:28,830 Adam Curry: This is what I always liked about Napster is, 1426 01:26:28,860 --> 01:26:32,520 you know, if I search for a song, and I found it, then I was 1427 01:26:32,520 --> 01:26:36,090 like, Hey, what is this guy? Have? You know? And then you go, 1428 01:26:36,090 --> 01:26:39,060 because if you if if that person had a collection, don't just a 1429 01:26:39,060 --> 01:26:42,300 listener had a collection of songs I probably would like, 1430 01:26:42,630 --> 01:26:45,750 then I would find other things in there. When Dan came that, 1431 01:26:46,080 --> 01:26:48,780 that discoverability that's what I think is the key. 1432 01:26:49,500 --> 01:26:51,300 Sam Mean: Yeah, that's definitely a way experience on 1433 01:26:51,300 --> 01:26:51,840 Napster. 1434 01:26:52,650 --> 01:26:55,350 Yeah, that's a way better way to discover music, like this 1435 01:26:55,350 --> 01:26:58,620 person, or, you know, through playlisting through through that 1436 01:26:58,620 --> 01:27:01,440 exact thing. Recommendations. Yeah, it's 1437 01:27:04,110 --> 01:27:05,280 Michael Rhee: so yeah, go ahead, Sam. 1438 01:27:07,440 --> 01:27:09,240 Sam Mean: I'm done. I think we got a little bit of a delay. I'm 1439 01:27:09,240 --> 01:27:09,510 good. 1440 01:27:09,929 --> 01:27:12,929 Michael Rhee: Okay, I'm just gonna say genre, like genre is 1441 01:27:12,929 --> 01:27:17,399 really tricky, because I think it's so subjective. Like some 1442 01:27:17,399 --> 01:27:20,369 listener, you know, you've mentioned metal core, like, I'm 1443 01:27:20,369 --> 01:27:24,809 sure there's nine different sub genres of metal core, that metal 1444 01:27:24,809 --> 01:27:29,039 core fan like, you know, you get offended if you were to put one 1445 01:27:29,039 --> 01:27:32,219 with the other but, and then the other tricky thing is like, when 1446 01:27:32,219 --> 01:27:36,959 you're in a band, you like, you think you're one thing, right? 1447 01:27:36,989 --> 01:27:41,969 Other people, like, if you have an agent, or like, like, you 1448 01:27:41,969 --> 01:27:44,909 know, promoter that week? No, no, you're this and we're like, 1449 01:27:44,909 --> 01:27:49,649 but we thought I was just like, artsy, like, artsy, like prog 1450 01:27:49,649 --> 01:27:53,129 rock band, they'd be like, No, your bog hat or whatever. I 1451 01:27:53,130 --> 01:27:56,340 Adam Curry: mean, I wouldn't. I wouldn't even say, you know, if, 1452 01:27:56,640 --> 01:28:00,360 if there was an app that just had a trail, you know, here's, 1453 01:28:00,390 --> 01:28:03,630 here's what else I listened to be. I'm not even something not 1454 01:28:03,630 --> 01:28:06,300 even not a playlist necessarily, that I put together, although 1455 01:28:06,300 --> 01:28:09,630 that's also that's also valid. But just oh, here's the stuff I 1456 01:28:09,630 --> 01:28:13,680 was listening to the I come back to this every single time I 1457 01:28:13,680 --> 01:28:16,410 opened up fountain, I saw Dave Jones, who had boosted 1458 01:28:16,410 --> 01:28:19,470 something. I went to go listen to it right away. It wasn't for 1459 01:28:19,470 --> 01:28:22,290 me. But if I see that again, I'll do it again. Because 1460 01:28:22,380 --> 01:28:25,260 Because I know Dave and I know Dave tastes, Dave's tastes and 1461 01:28:25,260 --> 01:28:27,780 do some things will be for me. Something's not but that's 1462 01:28:27,780 --> 01:28:32,610 discovery. You know, I think search by genre, algorithmic 1463 01:28:32,610 --> 01:28:35,730 stuff. That's that's a path to death and destruction. Oh, by 1464 01:28:35,730 --> 01:28:42,450 the way, Dred Scott. There you go. 1888. Nick came right back 1465 01:28:42,450 --> 01:28:46,470 just to show us that he can do it. Another one from Steven B. 1466 01:28:46,470 --> 01:28:50,430 Hey, wave Lake one. What's your plan for automatically adding 1467 01:28:50,430 --> 01:28:53,430 your directory to the index right now bands are adding their 1468 01:28:53,430 --> 01:28:56,790 wave Lake feeds manually? And I'll give you the second part to 1469 01:28:56,940 --> 01:28:59,820 what's your plan for being able to play albums and wave lake 1470 01:28:59,820 --> 01:29:03,360 that aren't hosted on wave Lake? These are big questions. 1471 01:29:05,850 --> 01:29:07,110 Michael Rhee: Put in this question. 1472 01:29:07,860 --> 01:29:10,950 Adam Curry: When you're stumped, we have stumped the band. 1473 01:29:12,330 --> 01:29:15,030 Michael Rhee: So I think Dave alluded to this a little bit 1474 01:29:15,690 --> 01:29:20,430 when he was talking about the way we want the fact that we 1475 01:29:20,430 --> 01:29:25,410 want to make sure that music is presented in a way that's that 1476 01:29:25,410 --> 01:29:30,000 just looks good that make that that sort of puts it puts its 1477 01:29:30,000 --> 01:29:34,380 best foot forward, so to speak. And one of the concerns we had 1478 01:29:34,380 --> 01:29:39,000 about auto loading the feeds into podcasts index was that we 1479 01:29:39,000 --> 01:29:41,820 were concerned that these albums might show up on well, they 1480 01:29:41,820 --> 01:29:46,200 would show up on value for value podcast players presented sort 1481 01:29:46,200 --> 01:29:50,820 of out of whack. And so I think our thinking was, you know, in 1482 01:29:50,820 --> 01:29:54,360 order to sort of, I guess, preserve the quality of the 1483 01:29:54,360 --> 01:29:58,020 experience for music listeners, you know, I think it's great if 1484 01:29:58,020 --> 01:30:02,010 people make other value for value music players like I think 1485 01:30:02,010 --> 01:30:04,740 that would be a first step in that direction and seeing more 1486 01:30:04,740 --> 01:30:08,010 of those would give us more confidence, putting music 1487 01:30:08,490 --> 01:30:14,730 medium, tagged feeds into the podcast index automatically. But 1488 01:30:14,730 --> 01:30:17,970 I think like right now, we just don't see that yet. But we're 1489 01:30:17,970 --> 01:30:23,820 hoping we're hoping that starts happening soon. And then the 1490 01:30:23,820 --> 01:30:28,650 second question was having feeds consumed by wavelight.com? I 1491 01:30:28,650 --> 01:30:31,560 think, yeah, we would like to see that as well to have like 1492 01:30:31,560 --> 01:30:36,810 self hosted feeds on wavelight.com. To be perfectly 1493 01:30:36,810 --> 01:30:42,630 honest, we haven't seen very much demand we do. We have like 1494 01:30:42,630 --> 01:30:48,420 one request that I can name or think of, of that of someone 1495 01:30:48,420 --> 01:30:52,560 wanting to publish their own feed, but you know, in terms of 1496 01:30:52,620 --> 01:30:56,940 like, everything we've got up in the air right now, it's on our 1497 01:30:56,940 --> 01:30:59,970 like to do list but it's because there's so many other things 1498 01:30:59,970 --> 01:31:03,480 we're trying to push forward to, you know, make the site is 1499 01:31:03,480 --> 01:31:09,690 Adam Curry: greatest, faster, build faster, build fine. Sam, 1500 01:31:09,690 --> 01:31:14,400 Seth, the CEO of pod fans comes in with 10,000 SATs. He says add 1501 01:31:14,850 --> 01:31:18,570 rel equals episode or rel equals track to create a pod role or 1502 01:31:18,570 --> 01:31:24,000 music role to create playlists. So he's already thinking we have 1503 01:31:24,690 --> 01:31:28,890 that we have another 10,000 from Sam Sethi. He says boost our 1504 01:31:28,890 --> 01:31:32,790 comments was SATs zaps are like payments but no comment. That's 1505 01:31:32,790 --> 01:31:35,400 definitely a way to look at it. And there's another 10,000 from 1506 01:31:35,400 --> 01:31:41,370 Sam Sethi go to bed Sam Aldi has added he says I'll be added the 1507 01:31:41,370 --> 01:31:45,240 noster in pub public key to the API we are this is for pod fans. 1508 01:31:45,240 --> 01:31:48,390 We automatically pull this into pod fans and now have a nostril 1509 01:31:48,420 --> 01:31:52,080 icon on the user's profile. So it's spreading this idea of the 1510 01:31:52,080 --> 01:31:56,460 distributed or the identity you can you can take with you or 1511 01:31:56,460 --> 01:32:03,120 create a toss like a burner identity. Anonymous 19,760 Pew 1512 01:32:03,120 --> 01:32:06,450 pew who's buying lunch Thank you. Drip stop just testing 1513 01:32:06,600 --> 01:32:16,620 testing Elden gar the the split kit 7777. We have n v n for VX 1514 01:32:16,650 --> 01:32:20,070 with elite booster team. 37. Thank you for your coding. Thank 1515 01:32:20,070 --> 01:32:23,520 you for your courage. Dred Scott. Another test of Eldon gar 1516 01:32:23,520 --> 01:32:29,190 was 7777 Eric p p with 33,333. No Nope. Tone record with a 1517 01:32:29,190 --> 01:32:33,960 short row of sticks. Sherlock Holmes seek out that 10k SATs 1518 01:32:33,960 --> 01:32:37,140 and boosted a few minutes before today's meeting started up. 1519 01:32:37,140 --> 01:32:41,220 Okay, I'll see that in a sec. I'm sure. Chat F with a test 1520 01:32:41,220 --> 01:32:45,210 Dred Scott with a test tone record with a Van Halen boost 1521 01:32:45,210 --> 01:32:55,770 1984. And I think we are Oh, Martin Linda's koge says I look 1522 01:32:55,770 --> 01:32:58,710 forward to Dame Jennifer's animated version of the episode 1523 01:32:58,740 --> 01:33:01,830 our podcast 2.0 micropayments actually worth it by Daniel J. 1524 01:33:01,830 --> 01:33:05,400 Lewis with a short row of ducks while she's working on it, 1525 01:33:05,430 --> 01:33:09,060 there's a long one. So it takes about one minute I think takes 1526 01:33:09,060 --> 01:33:12,630 about an hour of work. So hopefully she'll have that done 1527 01:33:13,050 --> 01:33:17,340 in a week or so. And then I'm at the delimiter So Dave, you want 1528 01:33:17,340 --> 01:33:19,560 to thank some other people who have helped us with this value 1529 01:33:19,560 --> 01:33:22,020 for value project known as podcasting. 2.0 1530 01:33:22,740 --> 01:33:26,430 Dave Jones: Yeah, sure. We don't have any one off PayPals this 1531 01:33:26,700 --> 01:33:29,400 Adam Curry: version completes conversion completes. 1532 01:33:30,570 --> 01:33:34,650 Dave Jones: But we do have lots of boosts we've got a 808 a boo 1533 01:33:34,650 --> 01:33:37,560 boost from chat as he says verifying my feed well Chad your 1534 01:33:37,560 --> 01:33:43,110 feed is verified through the tricolor. That would be the 1535 01:33:43,110 --> 01:33:47,490 Swedish tricolor. I'm imagining 1234 through fountain. He says 1536 01:33:47,520 --> 01:33:49,410 in his message it says podcasting. 1537 01:33:49,980 --> 01:33:53,190 Adam Curry: Yes, podcast podcasting. 1538 01:33:54,420 --> 01:33:58,350 Dave Jones: Let's see somebody Oh, that's that's me. What how 1539 01:33:58,350 --> 01:34:00,840 did i How did I How did I boost myself probably 1540 01:34:01,590 --> 01:34:03,930 Adam Curry: illegal by the way in 2016. So 1541 01:34:05,700 --> 01:34:10,050 Dave Jones: I know and I know what this is. This is Dave Jones 1542 01:34:10,500 --> 01:34:14,280 says 2112 And it says through breeze Dave Jones again here and 1543 01:34:14,280 --> 01:34:18,750 I don't care about verifiable identity. That's me. I know what 1544 01:34:18,750 --> 01:34:21,840 that's okay. Yeah, and I think I know who this is. Yeah, this 1545 01:34:21,930 --> 01:34:26,280 Yes. points. Point taken. Yes. Point taken 20 And he just keeps 1546 01:34:26,280 --> 01:34:30,930 on going. Todd from Northern Virginia 11 111 Big satchel 1547 01:34:30,930 --> 01:34:34,530 Richards through breezes is boosted boosted real good. 1548 01:34:34,530 --> 01:34:41,220 Sorry. Boost. Nicholas B 58 5000 SATs through fountain. This is 1549 01:34:41,220 --> 01:34:43,890 nice episode keep boosting guys. All right. Thank you. Thanks, 1550 01:34:43,890 --> 01:34:47,190 Nicholas. Another one from Nicholas and other 5000 SATs who 1551 01:34:47,190 --> 01:34:50,550 fountaining says another boost from the Swiss German Bitcoin 1552 01:34:50,550 --> 01:34:59,070 podcast called oh lord de decentral Schwartz podcast and D 1553 01:34:59,280 --> 01:35:02,130 decentral. slides boost boost boost. 1554 01:35:02,460 --> 01:35:04,500 Adam Curry: Good enough for me. Yeah, I'm 1555 01:35:04,500 --> 01:35:06,120 Sam Mean: gonna Yeah, I'm gonna boost you on that for that one. 1556 01:35:06,150 --> 01:35:10,260 Dave Jones: Okay sorry sorry for this shameless plug. Great work 1557 01:35:10,260 --> 01:35:13,650 guys. Thank you. And another another one the last one from 1558 01:35:13,650 --> 01:35:17,760 Nicolas be 58 through fountain and he says another boost boost 1559 01:35:18,480 --> 01:35:23,670 boost. Clark in my buddy 25,001 SATs through fountain Ed says 1560 01:35:23,670 --> 01:35:30,870 boop beep all right, don't just boost our Davis at seven 4000 1561 01:35:30,870 --> 01:35:35,460 SATs the pod verse in our Davis says as to the discussion at the 1562 01:35:35,460 --> 01:35:38,040 beginning of the show on transcripts, I don't think as a 1563 01:35:38,040 --> 01:35:41,310 podcast listener and a future podcast producer, I don't think 1564 01:35:41,310 --> 01:35:44,940 we need a word for word timestamp. I think it's 1565 01:35:44,940 --> 01:35:48,060 overkill. What we have now with SRT is fine. 1566 01:35:49,680 --> 01:35:51,000 Adam Curry: You're in the minority there. 1567 01:35:52,080 --> 01:35:54,870 Dave Jones: Normally Think About It with Think About It with 1568 01:35:54,870 --> 01:35:56,910 music. I mean, look we're talking about today I mean, a 1569 01:35:56,910 --> 01:35:58,440 word for word follows a bouncing 1570 01:35:58,440 --> 01:35:59,010 Adam Curry: ball. 1571 01:35:59,520 --> 01:36:04,200 Dave Jones: Mm hmm it's pretty strong. I mean, like I can 1572 01:36:04,200 --> 01:36:08,010 imagine especially for you know, hearing impaired I don't I'm 1573 01:36:08,010 --> 01:36:09,780 high on the word for word timestamp. 1574 01:36:09,809 --> 01:36:10,589 Adam Curry: I'm with you. 1575 01:36:10,620 --> 01:36:14,070 Dave Jones: I'm with you on that. Are David's 87 4000 SATs 1576 01:36:14,070 --> 01:36:17,370 through pod verse again. He says I love all this web hook talk in 1577 01:36:17,370 --> 01:36:22,200 JavaScript. I can't get enough of this hot namespace talk gets 1578 01:36:22,200 --> 01:36:26,910 me all excited to go podcasting and pod Father, if you will. 1579 01:36:27,030 --> 01:36:32,370 Yeah. Please give me a goat screen. That's in the that's the 1580 01:36:32,370 --> 01:36:32,790 other day. 1581 01:36:34,050 --> 01:36:35,310 Adam Curry: Actually have it somewhere. 1582 01:36:36,780 --> 01:36:40,560 Dave Jones: Mere Mortals 2222 through fountain. 1583 01:36:42,270 --> 01:36:44,460 Adam Curry: Found the co founder. I found the goat 1584 01:36:45,810 --> 01:36:48,210 Dave Jones: goat delivered. The Standards Project does sound 1585 01:36:48,210 --> 01:36:50,850 like a lot of politicking. I wish them all the best with it. 1586 01:36:50,910 --> 01:36:56,760 High five. Yo, yo. Joel who says hello? Richards through 1587 01:36:56,760 --> 01:37:00,960 fountain? No, no, thank you, Joe. Jean bein elite boost 1337 1588 01:37:00,960 --> 01:37:03,750 says hopefully fountain will want to be PSP certified and 1589 01:37:03,750 --> 01:37:06,630 will implement transcripts. True 1590 01:37:06,660 --> 01:37:07,980 Adam Curry: that answers my question. 1591 01:37:08,790 --> 01:37:10,050 Dave Jones: What was your question? 1592 01:37:10,080 --> 01:37:11,910 Adam Curry: I wondered if they had transcripts? I guess they 1593 01:37:11,910 --> 01:37:13,110 don't. They don't. 1594 01:37:13,200 --> 01:37:16,020 Dave Jones: Okay. Gene being again, delete moose through cast 1595 01:37:16,020 --> 01:37:19,290 Matic is this How is what Adam wants from noster different from 1596 01:37:19,290 --> 01:37:25,440 an OAuth or open ID system? I think it I mean, I think it's 1597 01:37:25,440 --> 01:37:29,640 because there you can create them with it's just a public 1598 01:37:29,640 --> 01:37:32,280 private key private key pair and you could tell some of the 1599 01:37:32,280 --> 01:37:34,080 things just because the throwaway identities and they 1600 01:37:34,080 --> 01:37:38,610 don't require near as much work. Yeah. I mean, that would be my, 1601 01:37:39,780 --> 01:37:44,130 my guess there. Gene been 2222 through cast medic says, Adam, 1602 01:37:44,130 --> 01:37:47,580 if you've had this 180 degree change of opinion on booster 1603 01:37:47,580 --> 01:37:51,300 Graham's showing up in apps? Why are they still all for this 1604 01:37:51,300 --> 01:37:52,170 show? And fountain? 1605 01:37:53,310 --> 01:37:57,150 Adam Curry: Oh, let's have him to turn back on. I don't think I 1606 01:37:57,150 --> 01:37:59,430 can control that. Can I? I don't think I can turn them on. 1607 01:37:59,940 --> 01:38:03,120 Dave Jones: We have to request it from Oscar Oscar. We'll 1608 01:38:03,120 --> 01:38:05,160 Adam Curry: do it. Yeah, let's turn them on. Sure. I mean, 1609 01:38:05,190 --> 01:38:09,510 clearly it works. And I thought I had I thought by adding a 1610 01:38:09,510 --> 01:38:12,900 split in there, it would actually enable them. So anyway. 1611 01:38:12,900 --> 01:38:14,910 Yeah, I'll ask Oscar to turn on. Absolutely. 1612 01:38:15,780 --> 01:38:18,630 Dave Jones: Gene been 10,000 says the foundation has really 1613 01:38:18,630 --> 01:38:20,670 enjoyed Tom and Kevin being on the show and all the hot 1614 01:38:20,670 --> 01:38:21,420 namespace talk. 1615 01:38:22,140 --> 01:38:26,370 Adam Curry: You guys are sick. Okay, y'all. Like it hotter 1616 01:38:26,370 --> 01:38:27,600 namespace talk, 1617 01:38:27,810 --> 01:38:31,380 Dave Jones: sir. twin screw 1893. He says I'm with you, 1618 01:38:31,380 --> 01:38:34,470 Adam. I like the nostre concept. It's kind of like keybase 1619 01:38:35,490 --> 01:38:39,990 Adam Curry: Oh, yeah. I don't like Cubase. Interestingly, I 1620 01:38:39,990 --> 01:38:41,280 understand what you're saying. Yeah. 1621 01:38:41,880 --> 01:38:45,990 Dave Jones: Alex had a good analogy for noster the other day 1622 01:38:45,990 --> 01:38:49,380 he said it's sort of like ham radio relays. 1623 01:38:50,160 --> 01:38:52,440 Adam Curry: Oh, totally. That's why That's probably why I like 1624 01:38:52,440 --> 01:38:57,150 it. That in fact, there is a protocol out there based on the 1625 01:38:57,150 --> 01:39:03,000 J x nine protocol I think that works on very low power and you 1626 01:39:03,000 --> 01:39:08,340 can actually it's all digital so you have a program on your on 1627 01:39:08,340 --> 01:39:13,170 your laptop and connects to your radio. And people can your your 1628 01:39:13,170 --> 01:39:18,840 radio can function as a relay to send the signal further when it 1629 01:39:18,840 --> 01:39:23,040 receives it from one to the other. And I can already see 1630 01:39:23,040 --> 01:39:27,330 some some crazy person setting up a Nastar on ham radio jet to 1631 01:39:27,330 --> 01:39:32,010 propagate I guarantee and I'll be there. I'll definitely 1632 01:39:32,010 --> 01:39:34,020 participate. I love that stuff. Doesn't 1633 01:39:34,080 --> 01:39:38,190 Sam Mean: doesn't NBK do that. Because he was like a ham. I 1634 01:39:38,190 --> 01:39:39,480 thought he was a ham radio guy. 1635 01:39:41,130 --> 01:39:43,200 Adam Curry: I think I don't know if he does that. He's definitely 1636 01:39:43,200 --> 01:39:46,950 a ham radio guy. You know, I was arguably I was the first person 1637 01:39:46,950 --> 01:39:51,090 to receive SATs over ham radio. Someone else claims that but it 1638 01:39:51,090 --> 01:39:51,420 was 1639 01:39:52,290 --> 01:39:54,960 Sam Mean: Yeah, I thought he was he was doing the SATs over ham 1640 01:39:54,960 --> 01:39:57,270 radio thing. Was he doing that with you? 1641 01:39:58,290 --> 01:40:00,660 Adam Curry: Know It was somewhat I don't know. It was sold as 1642 01:40:00,660 --> 01:40:02,820 years ago. I don't remember. I don't remember. 1643 01:40:03,959 --> 01:40:05,339 Sam Mean: Yeah, ham father to 1644 01:40:05,849 --> 01:40:11,669 Adam Curry: know. They call that no, wait for it. They call that 1645 01:40:11,669 --> 01:40:15,779 an Elmer. So no, I'm okay. Being an Elmer 1646 01:40:18,090 --> 01:40:21,840 Dave Jones: Steven B 1000 SATs through through the elding gar 1647 01:40:21,840 --> 01:40:26,730 app. Oh, nice to see a new app show up. Yay. He says elding gar 1648 01:40:26,760 --> 01:40:31,020 easy podcast link builder test boost. There. You weren't by 1649 01:40:31,500 --> 01:40:36,630 Stephen. by five. He got about about six days and they're all 1650 01:40:36,630 --> 01:40:41,460 good Steven boomie of the lb teams and has 2100 SATs and he 1651 01:40:41,460 --> 01:40:42,450 says high five. 1652 01:40:42,540 --> 01:40:45,720 Adam Curry: Yo, yo, thank you. Borlaug. 1653 01:40:45,930 --> 01:40:51,690 Dave Jones: 101010 coronary whoa 1654 01:40:51,960 --> 01:41:01,500 Adam Curry: Sakala 20 is Blaze. Oh my. Oh my god. I figured we 1655 01:41:01,500 --> 01:41:06,930 throw that in for Sam. We're getting their train going you 1656 01:41:06,930 --> 01:41:07,170 know. 1657 01:41:08,940 --> 01:41:10,020 Sam Mean: Don't get another train and 1658 01:41:12,240 --> 01:41:16,560 Dave Jones: you need train in your podcast. Thank you Borlaug. 1659 01:41:16,560 --> 01:41:19,260 He says how many sets does it take before we can put board 1660 01:41:19,260 --> 01:41:24,300 member on a CV like anaise episode? That Oh, baby. 1661 01:41:24,600 --> 01:41:26,460 Adam Curry: Oh, that's that's a good question. 1662 01:41:26,850 --> 01:41:28,800 Dave Jones: Well, often, how many sets will it take to get 1663 01:41:28,800 --> 01:41:35,400 Mr. Dave Jones to do another weekly podcast another week? No, 1664 01:41:35,400 --> 01:41:39,870 a lot more than 100. I love what you're doing. And I love both of 1665 01:41:39,870 --> 01:41:43,170 you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you Borlaug. Thanks 1666 01:41:43,170 --> 01:41:47,460 for that cast VLAN 3692 found and he says like the Gnostic 1667 01:41:47,460 --> 01:41:50,820 talk getting some old BitTorrent Sync feelings around the things 1668 01:41:50,820 --> 01:41:52,440 I thank you for working for free. 1669 01:41:53,040 --> 01:41:55,110 Adam Curry: BitTorrent saying how you doing booth? Yeah, I 1670 01:41:55,110 --> 01:41:58,590 remember. Remember another failed project, too bad 1671 01:41:58,620 --> 01:42:03,780 Dave Jones: decent 100% District decentralization is? I'll say it 1672 01:42:03,780 --> 01:42:06,360 again. It's impossibly difficult, although 1673 01:42:06,360 --> 01:42:10,110 Adam Curry: I will say that, you know, as someone was looking to 1674 01:42:10,110 --> 01:42:15,660 pull in all the old daily source code archives. Someone I think I 1675 01:42:15,660 --> 01:42:19,320 think Chris Chris Freising founded some some lonely old 1676 01:42:19,320 --> 01:42:23,250 dude still out there, had a BitTorrent Sync Node up with all 1677 01:42:23,250 --> 01:42:25,920 the daily source code episodes and we were able to collect them 1678 01:42:25,920 --> 01:42:28,320 from that one from that one person. 1679 01:42:30,030 --> 01:42:33,150 Dave Jones: He's also the guy that runs NTP or whatever, like 1680 01:42:34,830 --> 01:42:36,780 Adam Curry: what an NTP you know, 1681 01:42:36,780 --> 01:42:38,040 Dave Jones: like Network Time Protocol, 1682 01:42:38,309 --> 01:42:41,639 Adam Curry: that old dude and NTP isn't that NTP the network 1683 01:42:41,910 --> 01:42:44,730 Dave Jones: doesn't use this use net in into NNTP. He's using it. 1684 01:42:45,450 --> 01:42:48,510 Adam Curry: Oh, okay. What was yeah, I forget what it was. 1685 01:42:49,019 --> 01:42:52,679 Dave Jones: Yeah, that are to see our Davis at seven 4000 SATs 1686 01:42:52,679 --> 01:42:55,949 through pod verse. He says a day before pre boost boost at this 1687 01:42:56,219 --> 01:42:59,969 way saying I'm getting last year, a day before pre boost 1688 01:42:59,969 --> 01:43:04,769 boost. TM pod father and podsafe just finished listening to the 1689 01:43:04,769 --> 01:43:08,579 future podcasting and wondered about your thoughts on Daniel J. 1690 01:43:08,579 --> 01:43:11,219 Lewis. His proposal for cross app comments also interested in 1691 01:43:11,219 --> 01:43:14,069 hearing your thoughts about the ideal of making the chapters 1692 01:43:14,069 --> 01:43:17,879 comments and transcripts, transcript tags, child tags of 1693 01:43:17,879 --> 01:43:21,749 podcast metadata tag. As always, thank you for your courage and 1694 01:43:21,749 --> 01:43:25,769 go podcasting? Well. I think we I think that deserves its own 1695 01:43:25,949 --> 01:43:29,729 discussion on its own episode. But yes, it does have lots of 1696 01:43:29,729 --> 01:43:30,569 thoughts about it. 1697 01:43:30,690 --> 01:43:33,060 Adam Curry: You already shut me down when I just when I just 1698 01:43:33,060 --> 01:43:38,070 brought it in. You shut down. And rightfully so. 1699 01:43:38,760 --> 01:43:41,850 Dave Jones: Yeah. I listened to Dan. I listened to that episode 1700 01:43:41,850 --> 01:43:46,680 with Daniel and Dave. Great description. And I think it 1701 01:43:46,680 --> 01:43:49,650 deserves its own sort of breakdown. They did an 1702 01:43:49,650 --> 01:43:51,990 Adam Curry: episode about the about the crosstab. I'll have to 1703 01:43:51,990 --> 01:43:53,610 listen to that. Obviously that right after we're done. 1704 01:43:54,060 --> 01:43:56,880 Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, I opted for that instead of reading the 1705 01:43:56,880 --> 01:43:57,600 documentation, 1706 01:43:57,630 --> 01:43:59,070 Adam Curry: right. Yes. Thank you, 1707 01:44:00,510 --> 01:44:04,350 Dave Jones: lyceum. 2222. So see, blah, blah, blah. Nope, 1708 01:44:04,500 --> 01:44:10,110 that was that was one we already got and Macintosh. 2100. Just 1709 01:44:10,110 --> 01:44:13,500 listen to the Marty bent interview. Love it. Dave, when 1710 01:44:13,500 --> 01:44:16,440 do you sleep? I can't wait to hear more about this new tool 1711 01:44:16,440 --> 01:44:20,700 today. Yeah, well, you just heard it. Yeah. Good, good 1712 01:44:20,730 --> 01:44:23,130 appearance on TFT. See there. 1713 01:44:23,280 --> 01:44:25,740 Adam Curry: Thank you. Thank you. I love Marty. I want a 1714 01:44:25,740 --> 01:44:27,720 great, great guy. Yeah. 1715 01:44:28,980 --> 01:44:30,750 Dave Jones: And we got the delimiter comic strip blogger 1716 01:44:30,750 --> 01:44:36,060 30 3015 through fountain, and he says, daring Dave and artfully 1717 01:44:36,060 --> 01:44:39,840 ardent Adam. The delimiter is proud as punch to bankroll the 1718 01:44:39,840 --> 01:44:42,720 longest running continuously boosted podcast in the universe, 1719 01:44:43,110 --> 01:44:46,860 especially with the salubrious value of BTC trending 1720 01:44:46,860 --> 01:44:50,370 heavenwards God willing, this will be the priciest pager duty 1721 01:44:50,370 --> 01:44:53,940 there is your automated Umbral checker will only ask that you 1722 01:44:53,940 --> 01:44:57,090 consider the AI dot cooking podcast show as an option to 1723 01:44:57,090 --> 01:45:01,470 spend some time with once a fortnight yo, it's dsbn growth 1724 01:45:02,970 --> 01:45:06,810 Adam Curry: if you boost Thank you gentlemen. Good booths, 1725 01:45:06,810 --> 01:45:11,670 everybody. Appreciate it. It's value for value and I think we 1726 01:45:11,730 --> 01:45:15,420 probably have some monthlies or some PDFs that have come in that 1727 01:45:15,420 --> 01:45:16,710 we want to thank people for. 1728 01:45:17,010 --> 01:45:18,870 Dave Jones: We do we got some monthlies. We got a pod verse 1729 01:45:18,900 --> 01:45:25,500 $50. Thank you Mitch. Oh, Lauren ball $24.20 $24.20 got basil 1730 01:45:25,500 --> 01:45:31,200 Phillip $25. Mitch Downey also a pod verse $10. Christopher Hara 1731 01:45:31,200 --> 01:45:37,230 Barack $10. Terry Keller $5 Chris Cowan $5 Jeremy Kavanaugh 1732 01:45:37,230 --> 01:45:44,190 $10 Jeffrey Rutherford. $5 David Norman. Hey David $25 Damon. 1733 01:45:44,340 --> 01:45:50,070 Kesa Jack $15 Derek J. Vickery. $21 and lovely name. Paul 1734 01:45:50,070 --> 01:45:54,480 Saltzman $22.22 and Jeremy gerdts $5. 1735 01:45:54,630 --> 01:45:58,950 Adam Curry: And, and believe it or not, we have a tally coin. 1736 01:45:59,490 --> 01:46:06,090 Tally coin on chain Rev. From No no, no, no, no. From this is 1737 01:46:06,090 --> 01:46:07,260 from chyron 1738 01:46:08,370 --> 01:46:09,780 Dave Jones: Oh, for Mere Mortals. Yes, 1739 01:46:09,780 --> 01:46:13,320 Adam Curry: he says Sam is super cool. That will be Sam Sethi who 1740 01:46:13,320 --> 01:46:15,390 we interviewed Did you hear that interview? Did you hear that? 1741 01:46:15,420 --> 01:46:16,500 That interview they did. 1742 01:46:16,680 --> 01:46:17,430 Dave Jones: Dave not yet. 1743 01:46:17,970 --> 01:46:18,750 Michael Rhee: Get Akito 1744 01:46:19,260 --> 01:46:21,750 Adam Curry: feels like we barely scratched the surface such kind 1745 01:46:21,750 --> 01:46:24,900 words. So this is to make Adam feel warm and fuzzy inside 1746 01:46:25,020 --> 01:46:28,740 30,330. SAS thank you so much current appreciate I love it 1747 01:46:28,740 --> 01:46:32,190 when someone uses Italie coin, because so many people requested 1748 01:46:32,190 --> 01:46:35,370 it because they're gonna send us plenty of mucho Bitcoins. And it 1749 01:46:35,370 --> 01:46:39,570 turns out they don't. But we we really want you to use a modern 1750 01:46:39,570 --> 01:46:43,440 podcast app, get that a podcast apps.com Boost us of course, you 1751 01:46:43,440 --> 01:46:46,020 can go to podcast index.org Scroll down to the bottom, we've 1752 01:46:46,020 --> 01:46:51,120 got to two red donate buttons, one for PayPal for your Fiat 1753 01:46:51,120 --> 01:46:54,480 fund coupons. And of course for the tally coin. And again, we 1754 01:46:54,480 --> 01:46:57,000 like getting the boost and the booster grams. And thank you for 1755 01:46:57,000 --> 01:47:00,840 supporting the podcast in 2.0 podcast, the boardroom and the 1756 01:47:00,840 --> 01:47:06,000 project. You are in fact keeping the engines running. And we 1757 01:47:06,030 --> 01:47:12,750 cannot thank you enough. Have we? Have we missed anything? 1758 01:47:12,900 --> 01:47:14,280 wavelike boys? 1759 01:47:16,200 --> 01:47:19,590 Sam Mean: No. This is really, this is awesome. We covered we 1760 01:47:19,590 --> 01:47:20,610 covered all ground. 1761 01:47:22,350 --> 01:47:23,520 Dave Jones: Everything exhaustive. 1762 01:47:24,030 --> 01:47:28,950 Adam Curry: Yes, I am so excited about the future and what you 1763 01:47:28,950 --> 01:47:33,240 guys are doing and will continue to keep motivating app 1764 01:47:33,240 --> 01:47:37,020 developers. I mean, it's it's a it's a heavy lift. You know, 1765 01:47:37,050 --> 01:47:42,630 creating, creating an app is not easy. Of course what is very 1766 01:47:42,630 --> 01:47:46,830 cool. Is there several open source projects that that people 1767 01:47:46,830 --> 01:47:49,890 can use to get a start with where are those do we have? Do 1768 01:47:49,890 --> 01:47:54,570 we link to any of those Dave? Was there any time player is 1769 01:47:54,570 --> 01:47:57,630 that one? I mean, there's Yes, you can you can pick up by 1770 01:47:57,870 --> 01:48:02,820 breeze breeze itself is open source. You know I'm gonna start 1771 01:48:02,820 --> 01:48:07,950 hassling Roy. Hey, by the way, where was Roy's? Where was Roy's 1772 01:48:07,950 --> 01:48:08,550 boost? 1773 01:48:09,300 --> 01:48:11,790 Dave Jones: Did not see a ROI boost. Maybe we said something? 1774 01:48:11,790 --> 01:48:12,660 Maybe we offended him? 1775 01:48:13,770 --> 01:48:16,410 Adam Curry: He's like, No, I am not sending anything to them. 1776 01:48:16,410 --> 01:48:18,030 I'm just going to sleep now. 1777 01:48:18,510 --> 01:48:21,780 Dave Jones: It's my it's my fault for knocking down a 1778 01:48:21,780 --> 01:48:23,040 takedown. noster need. 1779 01:48:25,890 --> 01:48:27,930 Adam Curry: I'm gonna talk to you. I know. Now wave Lake is 1780 01:48:27,930 --> 01:48:30,810 already integrated as an app, isn't it into breeze? 1781 01:48:32,250 --> 01:48:35,010 Sam Mean: Though I think it needs to be updated. Like the 1782 01:48:35,010 --> 01:48:37,860 old version was on there for a second. So I don't think it 1783 01:48:37,860 --> 01:48:40,110 really works. Now we have to get that upgraded on the new version 1784 01:48:40,110 --> 01:48:42,180 of whatever the new version of race comes out. 1785 01:48:42,210 --> 01:48:44,220 Adam Curry: Leave it to me. Let me talk. Let me talk to 1786 01:48:45,660 --> 01:48:48,870 Sam Mean: you take care of Roy. Oh, yeah, 1787 01:48:48,930 --> 01:48:51,690 Adam Curry: it's what I do. I love taking care of Roy. But I 1788 01:48:51,690 --> 01:48:51,990 do. 1789 01:48:52,290 --> 01:48:54,900 Sam Mean: I wanted to say it again. I love Roy's rugs the 1790 01:48:54,900 --> 01:48:55,290 best and 1791 01:48:55,680 --> 01:48:58,380 Dave Jones: he's a great he's a great person. Great person. 1792 01:48:58,500 --> 01:49:00,180 Adam Curry: All right, gentlemen. Well, thank you so 1793 01:49:00,180 --> 01:49:03,870 much. Continued success. We're here whenever you need 1794 01:49:03,870 --> 01:49:07,500 something. Whatever we can do, we'd love doing it. Dave any 1795 01:49:07,500 --> 01:49:08,340 final words? 1796 01:49:09,930 --> 01:49:12,240 Dave Jones: I mean, if you'll indulge me I just wanted to get 1797 01:49:12,270 --> 01:49:15,630 a wanted to get one recommendation from Michael and 1798 01:49:15,630 --> 01:49:19,800 one recommendation for Sam for an album off of yes, you know 1799 01:49:19,800 --> 01:49:23,160 alpha off of wavelength that they are stoked about. Now Now 1800 01:49:23,160 --> 01:49:27,120 you each have music. Also. You're both musicians. There's 1801 01:49:27,120 --> 01:49:30,570 one cannot you cannot reference yourself horns coming back to 1802 01:49:30,570 --> 01:49:34,560 haunt you. You what? Give us one give us one each What do you 1803 01:49:34,560 --> 01:49:39,120 enter? Okay, yeah. 1804 01:49:40,980 --> 01:49:42,600 Sam Mean: I'm trying to find the name of it because I've already 1805 01:49:42,600 --> 01:49:44,970 forgotten the name. It's the Turkish punk band 1806 01:49:46,260 --> 01:49:47,190 Dave Jones: All right, punk. 1807 01:49:47,190 --> 01:49:49,050 Adam Curry: I like it Turkish punk band. I like it. 1808 01:49:49,080 --> 01:49:52,050 Michael Rhee: Oh, well. Okay, so while you look that up? I would 1809 01:49:52,050 --> 01:49:57,270 recommend a band called Silver unit. Awesome. Yeah. Have a 1810 01:49:57,450 --> 01:50:00,420 great one. Yeah, they have an album on wave like that. I 1811 01:50:00,420 --> 01:50:02,220 really dig so I would recommend that one. 1812 01:50:04,170 --> 01:50:08,340 Sam Mean: Yeah, actually, I'm gonna I'm gonna give a shout out 1813 01:50:08,340 --> 01:50:12,600 other than like the easy ones Jim Martin to homewrecker. I'm 1814 01:50:12,600 --> 01:50:16,920 going with man like quex he did the M Pub song is sitting at 1815 01:50:16,920 --> 01:50:20,070 number two on our top 40 right now. And it's the first track to 1816 01:50:20,070 --> 01:50:22,320 drop wave lake in lyrics, which was pretty 1817 01:50:23,550 --> 01:50:30,090 Adam Curry: nice. Hearing that you guys have a top 40 May I 1818 01:50:30,090 --> 01:50:34,410 just say that as soon as we can as soon as possible. I would 1819 01:50:34,410 --> 01:50:38,310 love to do the wavelength top 40 Show. 1820 01:50:39,630 --> 01:50:41,940 Michael Rhee: Countdown Oh, yeah. Okay, some style, 1821 01:50:42,000 --> 01:50:45,810 Adam Curry: everybody. Y'all I would love if as long as we got 1822 01:50:46,290 --> 01:50:50,190 with value blocks. I will do that sounds so cool. I will do 1823 01:50:50,190 --> 01:50:54,330 it. I love to do it. And I am. I'm excited about that idea. 1824 01:50:55,110 --> 01:50:58,620 Dave Jones: Can we get a wave like foo bar Friday? Yes, 1825 01:50:58,620 --> 01:50:59,100 exactly. 1826 01:50:59,130 --> 01:51:02,820 Adam Curry: Exactly. Exactly. Be very, very cool. And I think 1827 01:51:02,820 --> 01:51:05,880 that would that would hate people love charts, man. If we 1828 01:51:05,880 --> 01:51:09,480 could do something like that. And then definitely, I'm all in. 1829 01:51:10,140 --> 01:51:13,200 Michael Rhee: Yeah, I grew up listening to Casey's top 40 1830 01:51:13,230 --> 01:51:14,340 Every weekend 1831 01:51:14,460 --> 01:51:19,890 Adam Curry: now it's a long distance dedication. Alright 1832 01:51:19,890 --> 01:51:22,530 guys, have a great weekend day my brother have a good weekend. 1833 01:51:22,800 --> 01:51:25,050 You too, man. All right, chat room. Thank you all very much 1834 01:51:25,050 --> 01:51:28,320 for joining the boardroom of podcasting. 2.0 we return next 1835 01:51:28,320 --> 01:51:31,620 week once again to bring you all the best in podcasting. 1836 01:51:48,660 --> 01:51:53,250 Unknown: You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast 1837 01:51:53,250 --> 01:51:59,340 index.org For more information podcast. Oh my god.