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podcasting 2.0 for september 25th 2026 episode 272 is this

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y'all hello everybody welcome once again to podcasting 2.0 this

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is your weekly board meeting The boardroom is filled and

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we're ready to talk about what is going on with

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podcasting, podcastindex.org, and all the things we're talking about on

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podcastindex.social. We are, in fact, the only board meeting that

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doesn't care about the midterm elections. I'm Adam Curry here

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in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in

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Alabama. The man who went to war with the feed

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aggregators before breakfast and posted a decadence. database graph as

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a riddle. Say hello to my friend on the other

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end, the one, the only, the pod sage himself, Mr.

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Dave Jones! Man. Man. I tell you. Tell me something,

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Dave. Tell me something, Dave. If I can not die

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here. No, no, please. I can only handle one friend

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dying a year. I'll wait until it's three months. New

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rule, new rule, new rule. I got a few months

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to do it. Yesterday was nutty. Yeah, you don't say.

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There was a lot of me staring at the screen

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and typing things yesterday. Well, the first thing that happened

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is I'm like, hey, man. My podcast is no longer

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showing up in search. No, wait. It was Wednesday is

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the first thing that happened. I'm like, I hate doing

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this to you because I go into the dashboard and

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I try everything. I'm like... And I'm like, scan for

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we get to do this. Like, okay, let me hit

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the pod ping again. No, it's not happening. And then

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at a certain point, you know, after like an hour,

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I'm like, I got to tell Dave because it's probably

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not just me. I was like, Dave, it's not updating.

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And then while you were working on that, someone sent

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me an email and said, hey, you know, no agenda

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doesn't show up at the top of the search, which

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you would expect. And then it wasn't showing up at

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all in the search for a while there. All these

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adjacent shows were showing up. I'm like, okay, well, oh,

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man, I hate to do this to Dave, but there

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it is. What went wrong, my friend? What was happening?

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Where do you want to start? I mean... What do

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you want to know first? I'm dying to know why

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no agenda dropped out of the top in search, and

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then I'd love to know what happened with the aggregator.

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I mean, there's nothing but pain is what I love

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hearing about, so bring it on. Yes. So the search

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is easy. We'll do that one first. Of course, when

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you told when when you sent me that email saying

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that no agenda was not showing up in search anymore.

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Internally, my first thought was, well, it's not it's nothing

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I did. Curry probably screwed it up again. Yeah. Oh,

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this is clearly somebody else's problem. But. But that's not

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what comes out of your mouth because you learn over

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time that every time you think that, it ends up

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being your problem. Right. So I'm like, well… What's the

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what's the most likely explanation for this? And clearly it's

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the podcast identity layer schema change thing that I've been

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doing for the last three weeks. That has to be

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part of it. It had to be. Yeah. And the

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first thing I did was I checked no agenda. Can

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I ask you a question? Can I ask you a

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question? Yep. My thinking was this has to be something

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with a feed consolidation or merge or something you were

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doing. But I stopped myself from saying, could it be

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or it might be related to this as a developer

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troubleshooting these things. Are you happy that I didn't do

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that or would you have preferred me to do that?

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It would not have been it would not have made

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any difference because I well, I say for most people.

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Most of the time when you get reports like that

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as a developer, you sort of mentally chop that off

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the end anyway. It's like it may be dot, dot,

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dot, and you're not even reading. You're already on a

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different browser tab. I figured. All right, good. But when

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you say stuff, though, I tend to – Read through

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it and consider it because – Oh, I get through

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the gate. All right. The gate. I'm load-bearing. That's why.

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I'm load-bearing. Yeah. You're the load-bearing gate of the index.

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But you know how this stuff works on the back

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end so well that you're probably in the ballpark. Right.

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And that's so I pull up no agenda, which is

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podcast ID forty one five oh four. I pull that

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up in the index dashboard. And the first thing I

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see is our new little badge here that says podcast

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forty one five oh four currently serves feed five nine

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two six oh six four. Oh. And so... And it

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also gives another little piece of text that says, not

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41504, so this row is an abandoned or superseded feed.

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Oh, no. You've been superseded. So this was the first

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clue of, yeah, well, this is obviously related because –

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So podcast ID 41504 used to serve, used to be

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used to be identical to literally identical to feed 41504.

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But now that the 41504 has moved up in the

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conceptual hierarchy to a podcast. Yeah. And the feed that

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is serving can be any feed. Now it's not pointing

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to 41504 anymore. It's now pointing to feed 5926064, which

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and the reason is because of what I texted you

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trying to get clarity was that. Feed.nashownotes.com slash RSS XML

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is the feed we have in the index. Right. But

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it's actually being served from feeds.noagendaassets.com slash noagenda.xml. Yes. So

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there legitimately is two feeds of the same thing, and

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it picked – The later one, because this seems to

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be the more widely distributed one, and it's what's in

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Apple's directory. Got it. So it's in our attempt to

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try to stay consistent with Apple as much as possible.

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When they have a feed and we have a feed,

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excuse me, when they have a podcast and we have

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that podcast. Because we act as a fallback, we try

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to just stay with what they have unless what they

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have is absurd. So that that means that the search,

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the search still works on feeds. Not podcasts because I

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had not gotten to that point yet. So basically it

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was just – it was seeing 41.504 as a dead

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feed. So it was not surfacing in the search. So

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I just had to hastily – Finish that work that

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I'd already designed and get the Sphinx search indexer SQL

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remade to respect podcast identity table and it fixed it.

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So, I mean, that was a fairly straightforward issue. I

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sort of knew that. quickly what was going on. What

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determines the order of search ranking? Well, I don't know.

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Because we don't have first-party data or we have very

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little of it, Uh... We get a couple. Just whoever

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your friend is, basically. Pretty much Sam and Mitch. That's

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pretty much it. They're our only friends. But other than

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that, we have very little first-party data. So we have

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to just do what we always do. Heuristics based on

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API traffic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so it's a, you

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know, it's just a number that gets cooked up through

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what we think is going on. But it could be

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completely wrong, but it's it generally tends to get it

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mostly right. Yeah. It does. I mean, it's decent. Although

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Podcasting 2.0 has also been dropping down the charts, I

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noticed. Hold on. So if I go to – I

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like going to pod.link. Okay. So podcasting 2.0. And it's

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an Apple podcast. It's number two with number one being

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podcasting explained 2.0 the podcast. Okay. And on podcast index.

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We are not in there. We are like, I think

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we're like 10 down or something like that. 1, 2,

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3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. Now we're

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not in the top 10. I'm seeing it on my

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dashboard search. Well, I'm just doing, so in Podlink, I

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couldn't even link to it. pod.link because at least not

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in maybe nathan bandus oh that would make nothing but

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sense yes because we called him because we called him

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undefined guy for so long he was like screw these

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guys yeah that's interesting i don't know why that happens

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when i saw podcasts index.org. Let me see. Podcasting 2.0.

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Well, shouldn't we be at the top?

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Oh, man. We're like 11 down. Yeah. That's what? 1,

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2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. Yeah, we're

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number 11. We're number 11. It goes to 11. That's

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why we're not showing up in pod.link because they only

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go to 10. We are below – in our own

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search rankings, we are below – Gay Talk 2.0. Yes.

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And Esto... Alpha Male 2.0. Esto es Podcast 2.0. The

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Rural Church Podcast 2.0. And the Daddy Mines Podcast. Daddy

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Mines. But yeah, I was just looking at Daddy Mines.

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Gay Talk 2.0. Let's see what happens. And Earthlings 2.0

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Podcast. Let's see what happens if someone goes there. What

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if it's... It's just a gay version of you and

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me talking to each other. You smell that? What? Smells

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like gray sweatpants and bearded daddies. Yeah, baby. That's a

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podcast right there. Sweatpants and gray bearded daddies. Show title.

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There we go. Sweatpants. Smells like daddy talk. Yeah. Yeah,

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so that was the easy one to figure out. Search

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ranking is always a constant weird thing. I demand you

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put us at the top. I'm sorry. I demand you

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cheat. Put us at the top. Come on, man. Come

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on. The aggregator issue of why your podcast wasn't getting

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picked up by Podping, that was a complete rabbit hole.

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That was where the fight was happening. Yeah, talk to

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me. So… When I got in there to look and

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see why we get to do this was not being

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told. It looked like it. I look in the database.

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There's one hundred and thirty five thousand backlog. Of shows.

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Whoops. And they're all in this. They're all in the

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seven thousand. Excuse me. The seven million ID range. I'm

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like, oh, ag seven again. Ag seven. That bastard. It's

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this thing. It's. Gives me like aggregator anxiety like it

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is always every time there's an aggregator problem. It's always

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seven. I don't know why, but... So I get in,

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and of course it's crashing. So it's been crashing for

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who knows how long. I don't know, maybe a day,

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24 hours at least. Weeks and weeks. No, no, no.

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Luckily not weeks. The oldest one non-polled I think was

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from the 21st. It was like 24 hours or right

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around the right time. And I'm like, okay, what am

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I doing? I've always – again, I've given up on

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index coding by hand. I'm now just full agent guy

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when it comes to the podcast index. Heck yeah. I'm

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so deep into this thing now. Mr. Agent Guy. Yes.

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So – I'm like, all right, here we go. I'm

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just going to start throwing the coding agent at it.

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And first thing that pops up is – because I

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knew what the problem was. It was running out of

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– it was overflowing – Node.js was overflowing the heap,

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and so it was just hitting a feed file. Loading

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the feed file into the parser was just overflowing the

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amount of memory that was given. And it crashed it.

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But I'm like, I've put – I know I've put

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in a 35 meg limit. I know that. And so

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I go start going through, well, syntax problem or just

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a logic problem in there. It just wasn't hitting. It

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was not picking up the limit. So I'm like, okay,

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this is an easy fix. The coding agent can do

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this. So it goes, it refactors a couple of lines

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of code, 35 limit kicks in, back in business. But

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then, so I'm like, okay, this thing parsed now. Well,

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when it gets to, these run in detached screen sessions.

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Mm-hmm. So I get in the screen session. And I'm

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looking at it. I'm watching it. I'm watching it roll.

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And, yeah, Eric, we are going to move to that,

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but just so many other things that I haven't got

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there yet. But the – so I'm watching it roll,

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and then – I see it when it goes to

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do its next cycle. It just hangs for life. Five

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minutes. Then I see it blow through and start doing

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aggregation again. And then it goes to its next cycle.

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Hang. For like five minutes. I'm like, okay, what is

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going to start looking at the other aggregators? They're all

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doing the same thing. So there's all the, there's this

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like anywhere from three, To eight minute hang that's happening

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at the beginning of each feed polling. This is hang

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time in this case is not good. This no is

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the opposite of what you want. Right. And. So I'm

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like, okay, well, here we go. Coding agent. What's happening

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here? Is that literally the prompt you gave it? No,

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I was a little more eloquent than that. So then

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it's a it's it starts looking at the code and

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it says, well, here's your problem. You are... You're trying

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to use a SQL query. to pull feeds to poll,

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but some of the columns you're using are not indexed.

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I can't be right. I mean, I'm I've been doing

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this a long time. I know how to properly construct

233
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an indexed SQL statement, or at least I thought I

234
00:16:03,111 --> 00:16:10,011
did. And but here's the issue. Sometimes SQL can get.

235
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At a certain size, a SQL statement becomes almost incomprehensible.

236
00:16:20,851 --> 00:16:25,071
You really need – An agent. At least a syntax

237
00:16:25,071 --> 00:16:31,371
parser to help you make your way through this. And

238
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I don't typically do that. I'm typically writing these things

239
00:16:34,682 --> 00:16:38,951
just – text by hand. And I don't like it's

240
00:16:38,951 --> 00:16:42,771
almost like a regex. But, you know, you need something

241
00:16:42,771 --> 00:16:45,172
to visually like give you colors and stuff because this

242
00:16:45,172 --> 00:16:47,401
stuff can just get away from you. If you have

243
00:16:47,401 --> 00:16:50,891
like a. Yeah. Your colors is good. Yeah. If you

244
00:16:50,891 --> 00:16:54,121
have like a 40 or 50 line long SQL statement

245
00:16:54,121 --> 00:16:58,231
with multiple subselects, this kind of thing, it really gets

246
00:16:58,231 --> 00:17:05,192
difficult to understand what's happening. And so what. here's to

247
00:17:05,192 --> 00:17:12,041
make it concise or try to The way that each

248
00:17:12,041 --> 00:17:17,902
aggregator pulls in the feeds that it's going to scan

249
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is, is there's nine aggregators, zero through eight. And each

250
00:17:24,291 --> 00:17:27,641
one of them takes a slice of the index. But

251
00:17:27,641 --> 00:17:31,182
that's not the only criteria that it needs. It also

252
00:17:31,182 --> 00:17:35,541
bases it on priority. So there's a priority number each

253
00:17:35,541 --> 00:17:42,541
feed gets. and update frequency. So there's multiple criteria. And

254
00:17:42,541 --> 00:17:44,672
the way I have that set up is, first of

255
00:17:44,672 --> 00:17:47,831
all, each aggregator looks for its own slice of the

256
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index. So aggregator zero gets podcast IDs one through a

257
00:17:53,391 --> 00:17:57,942
million. Aggregator one gets one million and one through two

258
00:17:57,942 --> 00:18:04,351
million and so on. Each one starts with. give me

259
00:18:04,351 --> 00:18:10,172
all the feeds where dead equals zero. and the ID

260
00:18:10,172 --> 00:18:15,231
is within my slice range, And it's pull now flag

261
00:18:15,231 --> 00:18:19,791
is set to something greater than zero. So that means

262
00:18:19,791 --> 00:18:22,491
I'm supposed to pull it. I'm supposed to pull this

263
00:18:22,491 --> 00:18:26,541
feed. But then there's a second set of criteria, and

264
00:18:26,541 --> 00:18:31,721
those are all indexed columns. Then there's a second set

265
00:18:31,721 --> 00:18:35,592
of columns that are also all indexed. And so, for

266
00:18:35,592 --> 00:18:40,630
instance, on aggregator zero, it's saying, I want that. Or

267
00:18:40,630 --> 00:18:45,051
so either that criteria or if nothing is in that

268
00:18:45,051 --> 00:18:49,711
criteria set, I want to I want to also scan.

269
00:18:51,641 --> 00:18:56,011
for feeds where the update frequency is nine. And the

270
00:18:56,011 --> 00:18:59,382
priority is greater than negative one, which means like don't

271
00:18:59,382 --> 00:19:02,531
ever scan. Negative one is don't ever scan. And the

272
00:19:02,531 --> 00:19:06,461
pull now is greater than negative one. is is equal

273
00:19:06,461 --> 00:19:08,561
to zero so what i'm trying to say there is

274
00:19:08,561 --> 00:19:12,311
i'm trying to say this aggregator needs to always look

275
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at at flagged for for pulling feeds within this slice.

276
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And also another set of work. And so and what

277
00:19:21,391 --> 00:19:25,471
I'm trying to do there is maximize all the aggregators

278
00:19:25,471 --> 00:19:28,251
so that even if there's nothing to pull at any

279
00:19:28,251 --> 00:19:30,382
given time or if the number of feeds in their

280
00:19:30,382 --> 00:19:33,801
slice is very small, They still get a bunch of

281
00:19:33,801 --> 00:19:37,451
extra feeds that also need work to do. Ladies and

282
00:19:37,451 --> 00:19:39,842
gentlemen, this is a value for value project. I hope

283
00:19:39,842 --> 00:19:42,871
you're listening very closely and understand what work goes into

284
00:19:42,871 --> 00:19:47,161
this. Please consider supporting the index podcast index dot org

285
00:19:47,161 --> 00:19:50,231
down at the bottom of red donate button. This is

286
00:19:50,231 --> 00:19:53,291
a lot of work that's going on here. And we

287
00:19:53,291 --> 00:19:57,911
need to keep it running. Back to you, Dave. Thanks,

288
00:19:57,911 --> 00:19:58,571
Jim.

289
00:20:00,163 --> 00:20:06,443
Um, um, So, All of the columns in all of

290
00:20:06,443 --> 00:20:13,143
that, they're all indexed. The thing that I did not...

291
00:20:14,343 --> 00:20:17,243
Think of the thing that I missed is that ordering

292
00:20:17,243 --> 00:20:20,373
those results, you want to give some of those a

293
00:20:20,373 --> 00:20:24,433
priority because what if you come back with, let's say,

294
00:20:24,433 --> 00:20:28,333
what if you come back with 1,100 results, but your

295
00:20:28,333 --> 00:20:33,743
aggregator is limited to 250 feeds? You want to have

296
00:20:33,743 --> 00:20:36,903
some sort of priority in there where you say, OK,

297
00:20:36,903 --> 00:20:38,293
I got back a bunch of these, but these are

298
00:20:38,293 --> 00:20:41,443
the ones I want to do first. And the order

299
00:20:41,443 --> 00:20:44,253
by is the pull now column because that can be

300
00:20:44,253 --> 00:20:47,843
great. It can be zero means don't pull this feed

301
00:20:47,843 --> 00:20:53,203
currently. Everything gets a one by default, but if I

302
00:20:53,203 --> 00:20:55,823
want to jump something to the top of the stack

303
00:20:55,823 --> 00:20:59,463
and make sure it gets pulled right this second, I

304
00:20:59,463 --> 00:21:02,903
set it to two. So that's what I did with

305
00:21:02,903 --> 00:21:06,383
we get to do this. I set it to two.

306
00:21:07,363 --> 00:21:10,043
Well, when you were pod pinging it, it was setting

307
00:21:10,043 --> 00:21:12,523
it back to one. So that's why we kept like,

308
00:21:12,523 --> 00:21:15,203
that's why I told you not to pod ping it.

309
00:21:15,323 --> 00:21:17,653
I didn't. I didn't. No, no, no. But you did

310
00:21:17,653 --> 00:21:19,583
the first time. I saw in the second time. I'm

311
00:21:19,583 --> 00:21:27,143
sorry. Yeah. That's fine, but then there's another order buy,

312
00:21:27,143 --> 00:21:31,543
which is last check. And that's an ascending column that's

313
00:21:31,543 --> 00:21:35,273
just a Unix timestamp. So that's saying if if the

314
00:21:35,273 --> 00:21:39,173
pull now is is two, I want those first and

315
00:21:39,173 --> 00:21:43,413
everything else. I want to check it in the oldest,

316
00:21:43,413 --> 00:21:46,743
oldest to newest. So if we haven't checked it in

317
00:21:46,743 --> 00:21:50,223
a long time, well, that last check column. Did not

318
00:21:50,223 --> 00:21:54,983
have an index. Okay. Yeah, because the last check had

319
00:21:54,983 --> 00:21:58,443
been like two hours before I started publishing. And so

320
00:21:58,443 --> 00:22:02,553
in my mind as I was writing, I remember as

321
00:22:02,553 --> 00:22:06,373
I'm writing this sequel, in my mind I'm thinking, okay,

322
00:22:06,373 --> 00:22:09,143
by the time we get to the order by… We've

323
00:22:09,143 --> 00:22:12,163
already we're already down to our limited set. So we're

324
00:22:12,163 --> 00:22:15,233
just doing an ordering. We're not doing this is not

325
00:22:15,233 --> 00:22:21,053
a criteria for this for the select body itself. Well,

326
00:22:21,053 --> 00:22:28,153
that's not accurate because MySQL's plan engine where it determines

327
00:22:28,153 --> 00:22:31,843
how to execute the plan does not always do what

328
00:22:31,843 --> 00:22:36,243
you think it's going to do. And if you're ordering

329
00:22:36,243 --> 00:22:45,863
by a multi... congruent set of criteria It expects that

330
00:22:45,863 --> 00:22:49,863
thing to be indexed or else it's going to order

331
00:22:49,863 --> 00:22:53,523
it before the limit check and not after. So it

332
00:22:53,523 --> 00:22:56,573
was basically doing a lack of it. It was yeah,

333
00:22:56,573 --> 00:22:59,483
it was pulling all every time any aggregator pulled its

334
00:22:59,483 --> 00:23:02,963
slice, it was pulling all. All 8 million feeds and

335
00:23:02,963 --> 00:23:07,413
then grabbing the 100 off the top is what it

336
00:23:07,413 --> 00:23:12,213
was doing. Oh, wow. And that was the hang time,

337
00:23:12,213 --> 00:23:16,113
the 8 million ingest. Yeah, and it was hammering the

338
00:23:16,113 --> 00:23:20,313
database all day long. Okay, so is that the change

339
00:23:20,313 --> 00:23:22,923
that – was that the graph that you showed? That

340
00:23:22,923 --> 00:23:26,203
was the change that you made? Yes, and it went

341
00:23:26,203 --> 00:23:31,673
from – on the metrics, it cut database server load

342
00:23:31,673 --> 00:23:36,843
by 65%. Wow. Just by refactoring. I thought my Linode

343
00:23:36,843 --> 00:23:38,933
alerts were low today. I'm like, I don't have as

344
00:23:38,933 --> 00:23:41,103
many. You weren't getting Mindy alerts? No, I didn't. I

345
00:23:41,103 --> 00:23:46,543
got no Mindys. I got Mindy. Who names a server

346
00:23:46,543 --> 00:23:49,703
Mindy? I can tell you why it's named that, because

347
00:23:49,703 --> 00:23:52,223
originally we had two database servers, and one's name was

348
00:23:52,223 --> 00:23:54,643
Mork, and the other one was Mindy. But we killed

349
00:23:54,643 --> 00:23:59,283
Mork because it was too expensive. Mork was from Ork.

350
00:23:59,384 --> 00:24:01,453
Get rid of him. Yes. Yeah, Mindy is all that

351
00:24:01,453 --> 00:24:05,653
was left. Yeah. So there was two solutions to this

352
00:24:05,653 --> 00:24:11,163
problem. One is we… The last check is critical. So

353
00:24:11,163 --> 00:24:13,843
in order – we need an index on that column,

354
00:24:13,843 --> 00:24:15,753
so I had to do an alter on the table

355
00:24:15,753 --> 00:24:20,353
to add the index. Well, then in trying to do

356
00:24:20,353 --> 00:24:25,193
the alter on that table, it would not get a

357
00:24:25,193 --> 00:24:28,393
lock. So when you alter a table that's the size

358
00:24:28,393 --> 00:24:30,603
of the – that's got 8 million rows in it.

359
00:24:31,563 --> 00:24:34,213
It needs to sort of find a place to jump

360
00:24:34,213 --> 00:24:36,843
in, so to speak. Yeah. Because it's going to have

361
00:24:36,843 --> 00:24:40,303
to do a temporary table lock. And then it can

362
00:24:40,303 --> 00:24:43,753
do the online alteration. It doesn't have to stop the

363
00:24:43,753 --> 00:24:46,393
database. But then at the end of the process, it'll

364
00:24:46,393 --> 00:24:48,723
have to do another brief table lock. Well, if it

365
00:24:48,723 --> 00:24:51,563
can't ever get that very first table lock because there's

366
00:24:51,563 --> 00:24:55,403
something else going on, it'll just keep rejecting it. And

367
00:24:55,403 --> 00:24:58,273
I fought that for, gosh, an hour and a half

368
00:24:58,273 --> 00:25:04,884
and finally figured out. It was the Sphinx person server.

369
00:25:06,443 --> 00:25:11,143
That thing had been running a constant hit on the

370
00:25:11,143 --> 00:25:14,513
database for like 12 hours. So I had to kill

371
00:25:14,513 --> 00:25:19,363
that thing, refactor that thing's sequel to go in batches.

372
00:25:20,123 --> 00:25:22,023
Before I could finally come back and do the alter

373
00:25:22,023 --> 00:25:26,143
to add the index, Then after that happened, that only

374
00:25:26,143 --> 00:25:29,333
took like 10 minutes. Then after that, go in and

375
00:25:29,333 --> 00:25:33,823
refactor the sequel to because that sequel was still going

376
00:25:33,823 --> 00:25:37,323
to be slow when the when the limits drop below

377
00:25:37,323 --> 00:25:41,403
100 because it's still going to fall back to a

378
00:25:41,403 --> 00:25:46,903
big scan. So then we refactored that out from being

379
00:25:46,903 --> 00:25:51,783
like select where and or to being a union, which

380
00:25:51,783 --> 00:25:55,413
is basically two separate selects. Then do a join and

381
00:25:55,413 --> 00:25:58,403
take like a Venn diagram of of the contents that

382
00:25:58,403 --> 00:26:01,413
you're pulling out of the middle. So you both of

383
00:26:01,413 --> 00:26:04,813
those things run at full speed. So. Like basically the

384
00:26:04,813 --> 00:26:08,623
aggregators are pulling out the database at like 300 milliseconds

385
00:26:08,623 --> 00:26:12,983
now. They're like blazing fast. And so they got like

386
00:26:12,983 --> 00:26:16,873
a million times faster and dropped the load on the

387
00:26:16,873 --> 00:26:20,993
database by like over half. Wow. Well, that's a big

388
00:26:20,993 --> 00:26:25,163
win. Congratulations. That's a big one. Yeah, I mean, the

389
00:26:25,163 --> 00:26:28,543
end result is fantastic. It was just – but, I

390
00:26:28,543 --> 00:26:31,653
mean, there was more. I just – I kept going

391
00:26:31,653 --> 00:26:35,903
because I'm like, okay, well, we're in here. We might

392
00:26:35,903 --> 00:26:39,413
as well just keep going down the rabbit hole and

393
00:26:39,413 --> 00:26:46,143
ended up spending more time on the aggregators. Staggering their

394
00:26:46,143 --> 00:26:50,843
start times. So now none of them launch their polling

395
00:26:50,843 --> 00:26:57,293
at the same minute mark. So they randomize across the

396
00:26:57,293 --> 00:27:03,384
minute. There were some feeds that were stuck in limbo

397
00:27:03,384 --> 00:27:07,673
that were just getting – reprocessed over and over and

398
00:27:07,673 --> 00:27:12,063
over because there was a couple of, um, There's a

399
00:27:12,063 --> 00:27:16,543
couple of HTTP status codes I was not handling. And

400
00:27:16,543 --> 00:27:19,143
so they were just they had been getting pulled like

401
00:27:19,143 --> 00:27:23,343
once every 10 minutes for, I don't know, years. We're

402
00:27:23,343 --> 00:27:29,813
just hammering those things. And there's a couple of. Stop

403
00:27:29,813 --> 00:27:34,963
the hammering. Yeah. Yes. Somebody the the A.I. agent literally

404
00:27:34,963 --> 00:27:38,093
told me it was like. It said something like, this

405
00:27:38,093 --> 00:27:41,043
is how you get banned. I was like, well, sorry,

406
00:27:41,043 --> 00:27:43,263
man. I mean, like, geez, come give me a break.

407
00:27:44,203 --> 00:27:47,653
So and then we were keeping an extra copy of

408
00:27:47,653 --> 00:27:53,884
every feed and memory even after the XML parsing was

409
00:27:53,884 --> 00:27:57,983
done in order to potentially flag it later. So we.

410
00:27:58,253 --> 00:28:02,273
It refactors some of that. It's just a bunch of,

411
00:28:02,273 --> 00:28:06,213
you know, a bunch. Oh, and it found, it did

412
00:28:06,213 --> 00:28:09,723
find another bug with one of the. It being the

413
00:28:09,723 --> 00:28:15,423
robot. The agent, yeah. Yeah. Another runaway API query. Yeah.

414
00:28:15,703 --> 00:28:18,483
that was a result of this recent refactor. So that

415
00:28:18,483 --> 00:28:21,503
was a bug it created, so it had to fix

416
00:28:21,503 --> 00:28:28,103
it. So anyway, it's probably... It was an all-day adventure,

417
00:28:28,103 --> 00:28:32,543
let's say that. Well... It's highly appreciated, brother. The stuff

418
00:28:32,543 --> 00:28:35,313
you do. The stuff you do. Let's bring in our

419
00:28:35,313 --> 00:28:37,373
guest. Let's bring in our guest because he's been waiting

420
00:28:37,373 --> 00:28:41,283
very patiently. And if we let him wait too long,

421
00:28:41,283 --> 00:28:43,673
he'll be drunk because he likes to drink wine around

422
00:28:43,673 --> 00:28:46,603
this time. Because our guest today is coming in from

423
00:28:46,603 --> 00:28:49,703
Marlowe. He is the CEO of True Fans, co-host of

424
00:28:49,703 --> 00:28:52,673
Pod News Weekly Review. And as of last weekend, a

425
00:28:52,673 --> 00:28:56,453
sexagenarian who would like it noted that growing old is

426
00:28:56,453 --> 00:29:01,053
mandatory, but growing up is optional. Ladies and gentlemen, say

427
00:29:01,053 --> 00:29:05,443
hello to Sam Sethi. Ah, good evening, gentlemen. Good evening.

428
00:29:06,023 --> 00:29:08,344
Can I just point out all I understood from what

429
00:29:08,344 --> 00:29:12,763
Dave said was nanu nanu. It meant nothing to me.

430
00:29:13,083 --> 00:29:15,493
I have no idea what you said, but it sounds

431
00:29:15,493 --> 00:29:21,583
amazing, Dave. Thank you. Well. If amazing means fixing problems

432
00:29:21,583 --> 00:29:23,884
that you yourself created, I agree with you. It was

433
00:29:23,884 --> 00:29:26,333
amazing. I got to ask you one before we talk

434
00:29:26,333 --> 00:29:31,553
about podcast stuff, though. Your wine business, are you seeing

435
00:29:31,553 --> 00:29:36,384
an increase? Because I have a friend here in town.

436
00:29:36,973 --> 00:29:40,844
who also is a wine importer, and he said the

437
00:29:40,844 --> 00:29:47,403
amount of non-alcoholic wine is way up. Yeah, it is.

438
00:29:47,403 --> 00:29:50,114
Are you seeing that? Yeah, more people are going for

439
00:29:50,114 --> 00:29:53,614
lighter wines or non-alcoholic wines. It's a shame. This is

440
00:29:53,614 --> 00:29:57,683
a travesty. This will not stand. It's the young, not

441
00:29:57,683 --> 00:29:59,923
the old. It's actually demographically young.

442
00:30:00,460 --> 00:30:03,700
But I mean, how do you even make non-alcoholic wine?

443
00:30:03,980 --> 00:30:06,859
Do you, I mean. It's called Ribena, I think. He

444
00:30:06,859 --> 00:30:09,539
said they, he said they like centrifuge it or something.

445
00:30:10,019 --> 00:30:13,490
It's just, it's not, I mean, there's trends like orange

446
00:30:13,490 --> 00:30:17,660
wine now as well. It's like, it's just becoming silly.

447
00:30:18,269 --> 00:30:20,930
i mean with with the warming that we've had this

448
00:30:20,930 --> 00:30:24,519
summer a lot of the european wines it's just grape

449
00:30:24,519 --> 00:30:29,440
juice yeah but they've they've actually ripened too quickly so

450
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,450
the problem is you're now getting white wines are great

451
00:30:33,450 --> 00:30:35,640
but red wines uh it's not good for it so

452
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:37,809
it's not going to be a good summer for wine

453
00:30:37,809 --> 00:30:43,299
anyway we we digress So it's juice boxes, basically. Juice

454
00:30:43,299 --> 00:30:47,950
boxes. Juice boxes and shoko love. What more could you

455
00:30:47,950 --> 00:30:50,890
ask for? It's a beautiful thing. So Sam did what

456
00:30:50,890 --> 00:30:53,960
everybody should do. He sent us an email and said,

457
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,789
Hey, man, I want to be on the show. And

458
00:30:57,789 --> 00:31:01,259
that's how you do it. And because you got stuff

459
00:31:01,259 --> 00:31:05,740
to talk about, because if there's any... For any member

460
00:31:05,740 --> 00:31:09,859
of the podcasting 2.0 band of misfits, it has got

461
00:31:09,859 --> 00:31:13,160
to be true fans that is literally implement. I mean,

462
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,059
they run out of tags. It's like we don't have

463
00:31:15,059 --> 00:31:17,329
another thing to put in there. Could you please make

464
00:31:17,329 --> 00:31:20,119
another tag? We need something else. We need more tags.

465
00:31:20,460 --> 00:31:22,700
We reached the end of the namespace. We need more.

466
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,299
I literally sent an email to Mo saying feature complete.

467
00:31:26,390 --> 00:31:33,170
there's nothing left that's where you need to start making

468
00:31:33,170 --> 00:31:35,730
bugs so that you can fix them so you can

469
00:31:35,730 --> 00:31:39,440
have something to do now we've got enough of those

470
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,819
still so you now what I always appreciate about Sam

471
00:31:42,819 --> 00:31:48,559
is he will update the the podcast index.social with the

472
00:31:48,559 --> 00:31:51,250
latest things that he's working on. Although it always kind

473
00:31:51,250 --> 00:31:53,140
of sucks the way it shows up because it comes

474
00:31:53,140 --> 00:31:55,369
in reverse order. You know, I have to go, oh,

475
00:31:55,369 --> 00:31:57,490
let me go find out, you know, okay. And I

476
00:31:57,490 --> 00:31:59,500
have to go and go to your click on it

477
00:31:59,500 --> 00:32:02,140
to get the first one and they go down the

478
00:32:02,140 --> 00:32:04,809
list. But, man, you've you've done a lot of new

479
00:32:04,809 --> 00:32:08,139
things, particularly on the value for value side with new

480
00:32:08,139 --> 00:32:13,539
payment stuff. Where do you want to start? I think

481
00:32:13,539 --> 00:32:15,690
one thing I'd love to start because it's related to

482
00:32:15,690 --> 00:32:19,710
Godcaster is publisher feeds versus network feeds, if you don't

483
00:32:19,710 --> 00:32:23,190
mind. Yeah. So Oscar came up with the idea of

484
00:32:23,190 --> 00:32:27,619
publisher feeds and that was about two, three years ago.

485
00:32:27,740 --> 00:32:30,950
It's been ratified as a standardised tag within the podcast

486
00:32:30,950 --> 00:32:34,769
namespace. Brilliant. Brilliant. No one's implemented it and I don't

487
00:32:34,769 --> 00:32:37,539
know how to get other hosts to do it. But

488
00:32:37,539 --> 00:32:42,769
what is a publisher feed? It's fundamentally podcasts from one

489
00:32:42,769 --> 00:32:46,599
single producer that you aggregate. So it's a great form

490
00:32:46,599 --> 00:32:51,009
of discovery. I land on... Smart list as an example

491
00:32:51,009 --> 00:32:54,089
and then we say the publisher is wondering you click

492
00:32:54,089 --> 00:32:56,170
on the one tree link and boom You get all

493
00:32:56,170 --> 00:32:58,750
the other podcasts from wondering you go. Oh my god,

494
00:32:58,750 --> 00:33:01,410
okay I didn't know about this this isn't okay become

495
00:33:01,410 --> 00:33:03,529
a fan become a fan Click on the playlist and

496
00:33:03,529 --> 00:33:06,079
run it as a whole playlist. So that was really

497
00:33:06,079 --> 00:33:09,789
cool, but no one's doing it so We then had

498
00:33:09,789 --> 00:33:14,119
this issue that a lot of independent podcasters were saying,

499
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,730
well, that's great for the big boys, but I want

500
00:33:16,730 --> 00:33:21,119
to form a wine podcast society. And I want to

501
00:33:21,119 --> 00:33:23,639
be able to start with my own podcast, but I

502
00:33:23,639 --> 00:33:26,639
want to invite people. I don't know, five or six

503
00:33:26,639 --> 00:33:29,369
other little podcasters. And we want to aggregate all of

504
00:33:29,369 --> 00:33:31,619
our listen times and our plays and then go back

505
00:33:31,619 --> 00:33:34,450
to the advertiser or sponsors and say, look, instead of

506
00:33:34,450 --> 00:33:37,819
having 100 plays on one podcast and 10 plays on

507
00:33:37,819 --> 00:33:41,259
another, we've got a thousand plays as a network. Can

508
00:33:41,259 --> 00:33:45,099
we now get sponsorship or can we now get sponsorships?

509
00:33:45,250 --> 00:33:49,099
some advertising or whatever it may be, right? And so

510
00:33:49,099 --> 00:33:51,269
the difference between a publisher and a network feed is

511
00:33:51,269 --> 00:33:56,210
a publisher is a single publisher with multiple podcasts within

512
00:33:56,210 --> 00:33:58,380
it that you can use for discovery and a network

513
00:33:58,380 --> 00:34:01,420
is you are not the publisher of any of those.

514
00:34:01,420 --> 00:34:04,889
You aggregate and invite people to join you But the

515
00:34:04,889 --> 00:34:09,360
analytics in your dashboard shows you all of the aggregated

516
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,849
totals so that you can then act like a big

517
00:34:11,849 --> 00:34:15,530
player and take it to somebody else for monetization. This

518
00:34:15,530 --> 00:34:20,309
is a very good explanation. And as it relates to

519
00:34:20,309 --> 00:34:25,260
Godcaster, I would say that because we have an integration

520
00:34:25,260 --> 00:34:31,059
network. partnership with RSS.com, and we're seeing a definite uptick

521
00:34:31,059 --> 00:34:40,300
of stations who are creating podcasts, you know, like –

522
00:34:40,380 --> 00:34:43,170
uh their own station podcast but they may have one

523
00:34:43,170 --> 00:34:45,840
from a local pastor or something from the city council

524
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,130
you know some other ones and this would be a

525
00:34:48,130 --> 00:34:51,250
great place to integrate that i'm the funny thing is

526
00:34:51,250 --> 00:34:54,849
sam is that people they really don't seem to care

527
00:34:54,849 --> 00:34:59,190
that much about stats it's so crazy i i the

528
00:34:59,190 --> 00:35:04,000
for the um uh For the linkage side, you know,

529
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,539
this podcast belongs to this network, that kind of stuff

530
00:35:06,539 --> 00:35:09,829
they understand. Our customers, they're not, I mean, they don't

531
00:35:09,829 --> 00:35:13,019
have ads or sponsorships, most of them, I would say.

532
00:35:13,619 --> 00:35:17,179
But in general, it seems just like the hosting companies,

533
00:35:17,179 --> 00:35:19,929
this is something they need to jump on board with,

534
00:35:19,929 --> 00:35:22,440
and we should probably start asking them to do that,

535
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,449
because I presume True Fans Hosting does this. Yes, we

536
00:35:25,449 --> 00:35:30,739
do already. Of course. Why am I even presuming? And

537
00:35:30,739 --> 00:35:32,800
it's like, yeah, I mean, I put a link in

538
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,889
the email I sent you, but the idea… is that

539
00:35:36,889 --> 00:35:40,820
we copied the publisher feed format in the structure. So

540
00:35:40,820 --> 00:35:43,849
in the RSS feed for the podcasts we host, we

541
00:35:43,849 --> 00:35:48,099
also put podcast colon network, and then that links to

542
00:35:48,099 --> 00:35:51,789
a file which lists all of the podcasts within that

543
00:35:51,789 --> 00:35:53,900
network. So we copied the same structure, and I'm going

544
00:35:53,900 --> 00:35:55,730
to put it up on the GitHub page, So that

545
00:35:55,730 --> 00:35:58,789
hopefully, you know, everyone can review it and then maybe

546
00:35:58,789 --> 00:36:01,519
we can get that approved as well. But the idea

547
00:36:01,519 --> 00:36:05,119
is that within the RSS feed, we now have pod

548
00:36:05,119 --> 00:36:08,650
roles. We now have publisher feeds. We now have network

549
00:36:08,650 --> 00:36:11,809
feeds. We have merch feeds. So we're trying to aggregate

550
00:36:11,809 --> 00:36:14,690
information. Lots and lots of things. I call it a

551
00:36:14,690 --> 00:36:17,720
super feed, but that's just our internal name for it.

552
00:36:19,739 --> 00:36:24,079
The thing you're – it sounds like you're describing –

553
00:36:25,029 --> 00:36:28,099
is less of a network and almost like a collective

554
00:36:28,099 --> 00:36:31,599
or a co-op. Correct. Yeah. And that was something that

555
00:36:31,599 --> 00:36:35,029
your hosting customers asked for? Yeah. So a lot of

556
00:36:35,029 --> 00:36:38,300
them were saying, look, I keep going and asking somebody

557
00:36:38,300 --> 00:36:41,980
to sponsor my podcast or I ask somebody to put

558
00:36:41,980 --> 00:36:46,369
DAI type advertising into it. and they go how many

559
00:36:46,369 --> 00:36:48,659
plays have you got how many listeners have you got

560
00:36:48,659 --> 00:36:51,059
what how many fans and the number is always small

561
00:36:51,059 --> 00:36:53,550
and so in the long tail it's really hard for

562
00:36:53,550 --> 00:36:56,559
those people to go and find people to you know

563
00:36:56,559 --> 00:36:58,929
pay them so if you can then say well my

564
00:36:58,929 --> 00:37:02,630
podcast is about wine and i've got 20 other wine

565
00:37:02,630 --> 00:37:06,489
podcasts and collectively we can then act as one So

566
00:37:06,489 --> 00:37:08,329
the whole is greater than the sum of the parts,

567
00:37:08,329 --> 00:37:11,470
then it works. And we also, in the analytics, drill

568
00:37:11,470 --> 00:37:15,039
down. So in terms of the money splits, it's easy

569
00:37:15,039 --> 00:37:17,960
to work out which one's got 10% of the plays,

570
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,320
which one's got 5%, etc. And so you can split

571
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,079
the monies back very easily as the admin of that

572
00:37:24,079 --> 00:37:29,559
network. Okay. What I thought was most interesting, and you've

573
00:37:29,559 --> 00:37:31,239
been working on this for a long time and I've

574
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,440
been hearing you talk about it. By the way, two

575
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,619
weeks of no pod news weekly review is tough, I

576
00:37:36,619 --> 00:37:40,199
have to say. We're doing it tomorrow morning. I can

577
00:37:40,199 --> 00:37:42,889
tell you why we had. So James was in New

578
00:37:42,889 --> 00:37:45,980
York for one week and then... We recorded two hours

579
00:37:45,980 --> 00:37:50,099
on Thursday as we normally do. And unfortunately, James sounded

580
00:37:50,099 --> 00:37:54,289
like he was in a water tunnel. Oh, no. What

581
00:37:54,289 --> 00:37:58,529
happened? What happened? There is a super secret new recording

582
00:37:58,529 --> 00:38:01,970
tool from our friends at Buzzsprout. And you decided to

583
00:38:01,970 --> 00:38:06,610
use the super secret new recording tool? Well, we've done

584
00:38:06,610 --> 00:38:09,220
it once before, but actually James says it was somewhere

585
00:38:09,220 --> 00:38:13,309
between the Rodecaster's SD card failing and obviously what was

586
00:38:13,309 --> 00:38:17,300
being tested. I hate it when that happens. I mean...

587
00:38:17,489 --> 00:38:20,769
That's the beauty of streaming live is there's always some

588
00:38:20,769 --> 00:38:23,559
crazy guy out there who's recording it. I've had that

589
00:38:23,559 --> 00:38:26,840
happen many times. Like, holy crap, everything failed. And I

590
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,360
got a copy here for you. Don't worry about it.

591
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:34,260
Yeah. It'll be out on Sunday. Oh, okay, good. So

592
00:38:34,260 --> 00:38:38,579
you're talking about it more. You're posting about it more.

593
00:38:38,730 --> 00:38:43,360
The idea of hosting no longer just being podcast hosting,

594
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:48,039
but more like a creator portal. Yeah. Now, look, you've

595
00:38:48,039 --> 00:38:50,619
talked about this in the past. You've called it the

596
00:38:50,619 --> 00:38:55,070
Rachel Maddow problem. Well, Rachel Maddow is a problem, but

597
00:38:55,070 --> 00:39:01,829
yes. Okay. Continue. I think what I'm seeing is that

598
00:39:01,829 --> 00:39:06,940
podcasters doing audio is great. And I still insist that

599
00:39:06,940 --> 00:39:09,369
a podcast can only be a podcast if it has

600
00:39:09,369 --> 00:39:12,869
an RSS feed. Otherwise, it's not a podcast. Now, because

601
00:39:12,869 --> 00:39:16,489
the alternative enclosure, that can be video as well. It

602
00:39:16,489 --> 00:39:18,529
doesn't have to be just audio. but it has to

603
00:39:18,529 --> 00:39:21,239
have an RSS feed. Anyway, that's just me. But what

604
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:23,659
we've seen is that people have started to want to

605
00:39:23,659 --> 00:39:28,679
aggregate all of their content that's been disparately spread across

606
00:39:28,679 --> 00:39:30,699
the web. So in the past, you might have had

607
00:39:30,699 --> 00:39:32,679
a WordPress site, and then you might have had a

608
00:39:32,679 --> 00:39:36,489
sticky meal site or a Wix site. And all your

609
00:39:36,489 --> 00:39:40,900
contents everywhere, your merch, your blogs, Now what we're seeing,

610
00:39:40,900 --> 00:39:44,199
not just with Truefans, I think, you know, Substack, Supercast,

611
00:39:44,199 --> 00:39:48,980
Memberful, Supercast, all of these sites are now becoming creator

612
00:39:48,980 --> 00:39:52,800
portals. And I think that is the arrow of direction

613
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,500
I hope and see that creators will go down. So

614
00:39:56,500 --> 00:39:59,980
what would that include? For us,

615
00:40:00,031 --> 00:40:06,451
That's so audio, video, a blog, live events, ticketing, merch,

616
00:40:06,451 --> 00:40:11,451
network or publisher feeds. And all of that gets aggregated

617
00:40:11,451 --> 00:40:14,651
into one RSS feed as well from Truefans. So when

618
00:40:14,651 --> 00:40:18,321
we publish to the podcast index, you get that full

619
00:40:18,321 --> 00:40:21,971
RSS feed. Of course... Any app can then read it,

620
00:40:21,971 --> 00:40:24,551
but most apps won't read half of the RSS reader.

621
00:40:24,711 --> 00:40:28,671
And I think you've also talked about adding newsletter functionality.

622
00:40:28,931 --> 00:40:32,251
Yeah. Yeah, so we've just built our own newsletter. So

623
00:40:32,251 --> 00:40:34,871
we're just going to push one out very quickly. And

624
00:40:34,871 --> 00:40:37,091
then, yes, that's the last bit we want to add

625
00:40:37,091 --> 00:40:40,121
for creators so you can have an own newsletter. your

626
00:40:40,121 --> 00:40:42,851
own email list and then send that out to people

627
00:40:42,851 --> 00:40:46,411
who have subscribed to your newsletter that's that's gotta be

628
00:40:46,411 --> 00:40:49,391
a hard thing to get into yes i mean like

629
00:40:49,391 --> 00:40:54,361
with all email is so restricted and broken broken broken

630
00:40:54,361 --> 00:40:58,201
broken we use send grid um you know is it

631
00:40:58,201 --> 00:41:01,011
good is it bad we'll find out um i think

632
00:41:01,411 --> 00:41:05,091
You know, we're coming from a very hard place. I

633
00:41:05,091 --> 00:41:08,631
mean, you've got Substack whose core was the newsletter, you

634
00:41:08,631 --> 00:41:12,891
know, and they're now building audio, video, live premium content.

635
00:41:13,051 --> 00:41:16,091
They're building all of this stuff around it. And, you

636
00:41:16,091 --> 00:41:19,501
know, So we're coming the other way. We're coming from

637
00:41:19,501 --> 00:41:21,681
an audio first and then trying to build these other

638
00:41:21,681 --> 00:41:23,971
features onto it. I will say one thing that I

639
00:41:23,971 --> 00:41:27,631
tell people over and over again, particularly with value for

640
00:41:27,631 --> 00:41:32,921
value. So if you're supported by listeners, the newsletter is

641
00:41:32,921 --> 00:41:37,911
essential and people have no idea how essential it is.

642
00:41:38,101 --> 00:41:41,031
So to be able to send out an email the

643
00:41:41,031 --> 00:41:43,711
day before you have an episode come the day, the

644
00:41:43,711 --> 00:41:46,831
day before and the timing also matters. And that's, you

645
00:41:46,831 --> 00:41:50,921
know, that's a testing issue. And what I've what we've

646
00:41:50,921 --> 00:41:54,751
been doing for 19 years. is hey we've got a

647
00:41:54,751 --> 00:41:57,731
show tomorrow here's a funny picture remember you have to

648
00:41:57,731 --> 00:42:00,041
support us donate here's what's come on up on the

649
00:42:00,041 --> 00:42:03,111
show and remember you have to support us donate and

650
00:42:03,111 --> 00:42:06,111
uh here's another fun picture remember you have to support

651
00:42:06,111 --> 00:42:10,771
us donate and it is typically responsible for i'd say

652
00:42:10,771 --> 00:42:14,921
close to 40 of donations come in after the newsletter

653
00:42:14,921 --> 00:42:21,871
goes out Because it functions as just a reminder? Yeah.

654
00:42:22,051 --> 00:42:24,771
Is that what you see? That's what it is. We're

655
00:42:24,771 --> 00:42:28,121
all attention deficient, so we need things that land just

656
00:42:28,121 --> 00:42:32,171
in time. So we get to do this. We've been

657
00:42:32,171 --> 00:42:37,261
using Substack. Now, unfortunately, Substack won't just let you... keep

658
00:42:37,261 --> 00:42:40,121
your own RSS feed and import it. If anyone's listening

659
00:42:40,121 --> 00:42:44,771
at Substack, you're idiots. Because that would be like PodPage.

660
00:42:45,011 --> 00:42:47,951
That would just be perfect if you allowed for that.

661
00:42:48,011 --> 00:42:50,321
But no, we have to use our feed and all

662
00:42:50,321 --> 00:42:54,451
this stuff. But what they have built in is they

663
00:42:54,451 --> 00:42:58,371
have... the financial model built in. So with one click,

664
00:42:58,371 --> 00:43:02,571
you're paying, which is great. On the other hand, it's

665
00:43:02,571 --> 00:43:06,231
not great because they're always popping up little things like,

666
00:43:06,351 --> 00:43:09,711
hey, you should spend money on this, which I hate.

667
00:43:10,231 --> 00:43:12,011
You know, it's like, no, no, it's value for value.

668
00:43:12,131 --> 00:43:14,721
Don't put the free option at the bottom. Let people

669
00:43:14,721 --> 00:43:17,591
know. You know, so there's some problems with that. But

670
00:43:17,591 --> 00:43:21,211
that integration, if I was starting from scratch and I

671
00:43:21,211 --> 00:43:25,821
didn't, for whatever reason, I would trust them as a

672
00:43:25,821 --> 00:43:28,951
host, which I just, I'm not seeing that right now.

673
00:43:29,031 --> 00:43:31,651
I want features. I want 2.0 features. They don't offer

674
00:43:31,651 --> 00:43:34,291
that. I can see why people go with that. So

675
00:43:34,291 --> 00:43:37,711
I think that integration and once you sub stack has

676
00:43:37,711 --> 00:43:41,871
has mass adoption with people who've already put their their

677
00:43:41,871 --> 00:43:45,391
payment details in. So the value part is like one

678
00:43:45,391 --> 00:43:48,841
click, boom, done. Okay, you're good to go. That's the

679
00:43:48,841 --> 00:43:53,091
amazing part. And look, they're building on a really strong

680
00:43:53,091 --> 00:43:57,571
core function, which is the newsletter and the blog. So

681
00:43:57,571 --> 00:44:00,331
it's – you know, Substack is being – it's being

682
00:44:00,331 --> 00:44:02,961
inshittified. I mean, you can just see – It is.

683
00:44:02,961 --> 00:44:06,011
It is a bit, yeah. It's gotten demonstrably worse over

684
00:44:06,011 --> 00:44:10,921
time. More stay on our platform, please don't leave. It

685
00:44:10,921 --> 00:44:14,711
just – It's a worse experience in every way. The

686
00:44:14,711 --> 00:44:18,311
app is horrible. It is. It's so bad. It's not

687
00:44:18,311 --> 00:44:24,831
as bad as Medium. You've got articles, notes, comments, posts.

688
00:44:25,071 --> 00:44:28,111
I don't know what's what anymore. It's too much. Well,

689
00:44:28,111 --> 00:44:32,731
the CTO has just left... and also to join OpenAI.

690
00:44:33,631 --> 00:44:37,791
Really? From the factory to the fire. Nice. Well, to

691
00:44:37,791 --> 00:44:41,891
start a creator network on OpenAI. I mean, that's what

692
00:44:41,891 --> 00:44:45,441
his announcement was. Yeah, so... And, you know, they added

693
00:44:45,441 --> 00:44:50,091
a podcast button and stroke tab on Substack because people

694
00:44:50,091 --> 00:44:52,921
couldn't find podcasts. Right. But you go try and look

695
00:44:52,921 --> 00:44:55,291
for that and find that tab. I still can't find

696
00:44:55,291 --> 00:44:57,981
it. So I think the UI is really a mess

697
00:44:57,981 --> 00:45:02,101
right now. It is. And it makes me – it

698
00:45:02,101 --> 00:45:05,591
brings up the – Something that me and Adam talked

699
00:45:05,591 --> 00:45:09,591
about last week, which is just everybody's trying to do

700
00:45:09,591 --> 00:45:15,191
everything now. It's not like you have hosting companies. Well,

701
00:45:15,191 --> 00:45:19,001
I think it started with things like Riverside and Descript

702
00:45:19,001 --> 00:45:23,421
putting in hosting. And now it's spreading to where, well,

703
00:45:23,421 --> 00:45:27,251
everybody feels like they have to do everything because everybody

704
00:45:27,251 --> 00:45:30,731
else is doing everything. And so now you're going to

705
00:45:30,731 --> 00:45:33,711
– everybody is going to have to – I think

706
00:45:33,711 --> 00:45:37,671
there's this pressure going on for all platforms to give

707
00:45:37,671 --> 00:45:41,871
you every possible thing to do. Well, I talk about

708
00:45:41,871 --> 00:45:44,451
– Sorry, thank you. No, no. I was just going

709
00:45:44,451 --> 00:45:47,171
to finish up by saying true fans, at least you

710
00:45:47,171 --> 00:45:51,941
understand podcasting. Like Substack, I mean, they may understand it

711
00:45:51,941 --> 00:45:55,411
a little bit, but they started out as a completely

712
00:45:55,411 --> 00:45:58,361
– it's a bolt. Just like Spotify started out with

713
00:45:58,361 --> 00:46:01,441
music and they bolted on podcasts later, I feel like

714
00:46:01,441 --> 00:46:05,071
the podcast first world – It makes more sense to

715
00:46:05,071 --> 00:46:08,011
bolt on other podcast features to start out as a

716
00:46:08,011 --> 00:46:11,051
podcast hosting company and then release like a like a

717
00:46:11,051 --> 00:46:15,441
recording tool or something like Buzzsprout instead of starting out

718
00:46:15,441 --> 00:46:18,111
as a. You know, it's like a meeting tool like

719
00:46:18,111 --> 00:46:20,451
Zoom and then adding podcasting onto the side of it.

720
00:46:20,671 --> 00:46:22,621
I have to say I just because Sam said it

721
00:46:22,621 --> 00:46:26,381
challenge accepted. I went to the I got the Substack

722
00:46:26,381 --> 00:46:29,321
app. I hit podcast and it shows a whole bunch

723
00:46:29,321 --> 00:46:32,611
of podcasts. And this is the interesting thing. So I

724
00:46:32,611 --> 00:46:36,081
put in we get to do this. And it shows

725
00:46:36,081 --> 00:46:40,671
it as the top hit in the podcast search. Then

726
00:46:40,671 --> 00:46:43,841
I tap and it shows that. Now, these episodes are

727
00:46:43,841 --> 00:46:47,071
just articles. I have no player embedded or anything, just

728
00:46:47,071 --> 00:46:51,871
purely a link to our own player. I think we

729
00:46:51,871 --> 00:46:56,381
link to the bridge page. Godcaster player. I tap on

730
00:46:56,381 --> 00:46:59,811
it. It pops up a page. It still has the

731
00:46:59,811 --> 00:47:02,021
click here for this episode, but it has a listen

732
00:47:02,021 --> 00:47:04,731
button. And I hit the listen button and boom, a

733
00:47:04,731 --> 00:47:09,551
player opens and it's playing our podcast. I don't know.

734
00:47:09,651 --> 00:47:13,921
So they recognize it somehow. And they I give them

735
00:47:13,921 --> 00:47:16,971
no feed. I give them nothing. Somehow they recognize it.

736
00:47:17,051 --> 00:47:22,251
That's that's rather outstanding. I have to say. Huh. So

737
00:47:22,251 --> 00:47:24,551
are you saying that you don't have a presence on

738
00:47:24,551 --> 00:47:27,931
Substack? No, we do. Somehow they have your content. No,

739
00:47:27,931 --> 00:47:34,031
we we our newsletter is on Substack. And. We post,

740
00:47:34,031 --> 00:47:36,571
so we'll create a new article when the episode comes

741
00:47:36,571 --> 00:47:39,261
out, which is basically show notes, and we post a

742
00:47:39,261 --> 00:47:41,571
link. But I didn't put the listen button on there.

743
00:47:41,631 --> 00:47:45,391
They did that. So they're smarter than I thought, actually.

744
00:47:45,651 --> 00:47:48,471
So they're not pulling your feed, is what you're saying?

745
00:47:48,511 --> 00:47:50,171
No, they're not. As far as I know, they're not.

746
00:47:50,171 --> 00:47:54,631
So it sounds like they're almost re- Building you another

747
00:47:54,631 --> 00:47:58,421
feed on their side and in effect. Because you have

748
00:47:58,421 --> 00:48:01,311
a play button next to all of your episodes, but

749
00:48:01,311 --> 00:48:05,781
it's only in their silo. Yeah, but if I say

750
00:48:05,781 --> 00:48:08,671
– if I'm looking for other episodes and it doesn't

751
00:48:08,671 --> 00:48:13,761
– I don't understand it. This is the problem. This

752
00:48:13,761 --> 00:48:17,571
is the problem is it's confusing. It is confusing. And

753
00:48:17,571 --> 00:48:21,211
you're the one who's – It's your account. Yeah. Yeah.

754
00:48:21,811 --> 00:48:24,051
Well, it's better than what I thought, but it's also

755
00:48:24,051 --> 00:48:27,191
much worse than I thought. Oh, well. I was just

756
00:48:27,191 --> 00:48:29,681
going to say, Deb, I think what we're seeing is

757
00:48:29,681 --> 00:48:33,161
a change from what I call horizontal to a vertical

758
00:48:33,161 --> 00:48:37,081
world. So horizontal was Buzzsprout was the host and then

759
00:48:37,081 --> 00:48:40,491
Overcast was the app or Pocketcast was the app. And

760
00:48:40,491 --> 00:48:43,251
then you've got WordPress for your blog and you've got

761
00:48:43,251 --> 00:48:46,071
something else. And I think we're now spinning that to

762
00:48:46,071 --> 00:48:50,731
a vertical where... Everyone does hosting through and you know

763
00:48:50,731 --> 00:48:54,601
Fountain and ourselves became hosts not because we wanted to

764
00:48:54,601 --> 00:48:57,751
I spoke to Oscar about this. He didn't particularly want

765
00:48:57,751 --> 00:49:02,151
to, but we were frustrated. asking all the existing hosts,

766
00:49:02,351 --> 00:49:06,211
add video, add this. Why is that feature not there?

767
00:49:06,591 --> 00:49:08,751
Who's got a pod role? Why don't you do this

768
00:49:08,751 --> 00:49:10,931
tag or that tag? And it was like, okay, well,

769
00:49:10,931 --> 00:49:12,451
if you're not going to do it, guys, we're just

770
00:49:12,451 --> 00:49:14,731
going to come and go, we'll do the hosting part.

771
00:49:14,731 --> 00:49:19,731
And the cost of hosting is minuscule. you know the

772
00:49:19,731 --> 00:49:24,441
the cost per gigabyte is literally 0.001 it is not

773
00:49:24,441 --> 00:49:29,211
expensive anymore so you know in the technology escalator it's

774
00:49:29,211 --> 00:49:32,021
now the bottom of the escalator in terms of feature

775
00:49:32,021 --> 00:49:34,961
and function and you're now seeing all the hosts are

776
00:49:34,961 --> 00:49:38,651
having to up their game to differentiate and Yeah. So

777
00:49:38,651 --> 00:49:41,921
we just went through the whole video upgrade. Everybody pretty

778
00:49:41,921 --> 00:49:44,081
much did that. Do you see a huge uptake as

779
00:49:44,081 --> 00:49:48,241
was expected? No. Yeah, I didn't think so. No, pretty

780
00:49:48,241 --> 00:49:53,251
much. That's as expected. I think it's good that we've

781
00:49:53,251 --> 00:49:57,481
done it. I think leaving the video to YouTube and

782
00:49:57,481 --> 00:49:59,991
Spotify was stupid. Um,

783
00:50:00,043 --> 00:50:02,563
I'm glad that we've all upped our game and done

784
00:50:02,563 --> 00:50:05,913
it. Will we see a massive uptake? I don't think

785
00:50:05,913 --> 00:50:08,303
so, but, you know, at least we've ticked that box.

786
00:50:08,403 --> 00:50:10,683
I mean, you know, Amazon this week have added the

787
00:50:10,683 --> 00:50:14,753
alternative enclosure. They've added video in the alternative enclosure, which

788
00:50:14,753 --> 00:50:19,643
is really well done. So congratulations to them. But Apple...

789
00:50:19,293 --> 00:50:21,673
So as a host, I'm still having to use the

790
00:50:21,673 --> 00:50:25,683
proprietary APIs from Apple, Spotify and YouTube to send video.

791
00:50:25,963 --> 00:50:28,723
It's not, you know, they don't support the alternative enclosure.

792
00:50:29,443 --> 00:50:32,763
They don't support in the primary enclosure HLS. So we've

793
00:50:32,763 --> 00:50:34,933
still got a long way to go in order to

794
00:50:34,933 --> 00:50:38,923
get the adoption of video properly in those clients. So

795
00:50:38,923 --> 00:50:44,923
is TrueFans hosting? Are y'all publishing in the alternate enclosure?

796
00:50:45,643 --> 00:50:50,123
Yes. Yeah. So we, before any of the Apple API

797
00:50:50,123 --> 00:50:54,243
stuff came out, we had made the decision to upload

798
00:50:54,243 --> 00:50:57,553
MP3 and MP4 and convert to HLS. So we did

799
00:50:57,553 --> 00:51:00,923
that. Why did we do that? it goes back to

800
00:51:00,923 --> 00:51:03,643
the other big issue that's going around what is a

801
00:51:03,643 --> 00:51:06,343
play how long should a play be and how can

802
00:51:06,343 --> 00:51:09,593
you get first party data and we were like okay

803
00:51:09,593 --> 00:51:12,793
we can't beg borrow or steal apple will not give

804
00:51:12,793 --> 00:51:16,153
it to us spotify or youtube and you look at

805
00:51:16,153 --> 00:51:19,243
bumper you know they have to ask their clients to

806
00:51:19,463 --> 00:51:22,563
give them a login and then they act and then

807
00:51:22,563 --> 00:51:25,613
they aggregate in some dashboard but it's micro data just

808
00:51:25,613 --> 00:51:28,483
for their clients now we worked out and i'm gonna

809
00:51:28,483 --> 00:51:30,603
you know i told you in the email i'm now

810
00:51:30,603 --> 00:51:33,013
gonna reveal how we're doing it because i think everyone

811
00:51:33,013 --> 00:51:35,263
should be doing it because we've got to break the

812
00:51:35,263 --> 00:51:39,833
monopoly of these three big players so There is something

813
00:51:39,833 --> 00:51:43,423
that we did, we converted all of the content, MP3

814
00:51:43,423 --> 00:51:47,743
and MP4 into HLS, and then we use this HTTP

815
00:51:47,743 --> 00:51:53,383
206 partial content. What that does is it actually asks

816
00:51:53,383 --> 00:51:57,653
for a range request. So we're streaming content down to

817
00:51:57,653 --> 00:52:01,303
the client. and the range request is being pushed. At

818
00:52:01,303 --> 00:52:05,063
the point when the person stops requesting content, i.e. they

819
00:52:05,063 --> 00:52:09,383
stop playing, we know exactly that A, they've played it,

820
00:52:09,383 --> 00:52:11,303
and B, how long they've played it, and then we

821
00:52:11,303 --> 00:52:13,073
can put that in our metrics, and that's how we

822
00:52:13,073 --> 00:52:15,273
do it. So we can do that across all apps,

823
00:52:15,273 --> 00:52:20,113
and it works really well. Mm-hmm. So the issue that

824
00:52:20,113 --> 00:52:26,683
leaves, though, is the thing that we're facing right now.

825
00:52:26,783 --> 00:52:30,923
I've gotten two questions in the last couple of weeks

826
00:52:30,923 --> 00:52:36,203
of people texting me and saying, hey, is this y'all?

827
00:52:37,143 --> 00:52:41,543
And – They gave us a screenshot of they gave

828
00:52:41,543 --> 00:52:46,033
me a screenshot of a user agent claiming to be

829
00:52:46,033 --> 00:52:50,203
podcast index. And it is not us. And that's the

830
00:52:50,203 --> 00:52:54,253
and I this we know this is I mean, obviously,

831
00:52:54,253 --> 00:52:59,843
this has been happening forever. But it seems like this

832
00:52:59,843 --> 00:53:04,043
is now a huge problem. User agent faking is now

833
00:53:04,043 --> 00:53:08,993
just the norm. You have no idea whether or not

834
00:53:08,993 --> 00:53:14,563
Apple Podcasts or Overcast or Podverse or Truefans, you'd have

835
00:53:14,563 --> 00:53:17,203
no idea if that's legitimately who they are. But you

836
00:53:17,203 --> 00:53:23,253
cannot tell anymore. No, and so my learning curve has

837
00:53:23,253 --> 00:53:25,743
been vertical since we became a host. So the first

838
00:53:25,743 --> 00:53:27,793
thing was, okay, how do we do this? How do

839
00:53:27,793 --> 00:53:30,293
we get our own CDN? How do we make the

840
00:53:30,293 --> 00:53:33,943
optimisation? So great learning. then we did the hls learning

841
00:53:33,943 --> 00:53:37,343
and then everyone jumped on the hls bandwagon brilliant and

842
00:53:37,343 --> 00:53:39,553
so that's the next thing and then we started to

843
00:53:39,553 --> 00:53:41,823
get all the streaming data coming back and it was

844
00:53:41,823 --> 00:53:44,793
like hours and hours of stuff and we were seeing

845
00:53:44,793 --> 00:53:47,413
bots all over the place and so we built a

846
00:53:47,413 --> 00:53:51,833
wath which is a firewall uh and we basically allowed

847
00:53:51,833 --> 00:53:55,843
the individual creators then see all the bots we worked

848
00:53:55,843 --> 00:53:59,943
with john spurlock's oporg list to begin with and so

849
00:53:59,943 --> 00:54:03,723
we could see the the ones that had truly said

850
00:54:03,723 --> 00:54:06,373
they were a user agent and they were bots and

851
00:54:06,373 --> 00:54:08,953
then as a creator you can then turn them on

852
00:54:08,953 --> 00:54:11,033
or off so the reason why we gave the option

853
00:54:11,033 --> 00:54:13,503
was because some people said no i want to be

854
00:54:13,503 --> 00:54:16,173
indexed by open ai no i want to be indexed

855
00:54:16,173 --> 00:54:19,433
by these bots and other people like well that's costing

856
00:54:19,433 --> 00:54:22,363
me money no turn it off so we gave that

857
00:54:22,363 --> 00:54:27,193
option but now we're getting uh unknown um data in

858
00:54:27,193 --> 00:54:31,373
terms of streaming it's quite a large percentage and We

859
00:54:31,373 --> 00:54:33,483
don't know how to fix it right now. Seems like

860
00:54:33,483 --> 00:54:35,783
it was 60% or something when I saw that graph

861
00:54:35,783 --> 00:54:39,453
you posted. Yeah, it's really high. And I think the

862
00:54:39,453 --> 00:54:45,383
answer is Apple. And so if these bots are apps,

863
00:54:45,383 --> 00:54:48,463
forget web for a minute. If these bots are apps

864
00:54:48,463 --> 00:54:53,743
and that bot that James highlighted is. which was removing

865
00:54:53,743 --> 00:54:57,343
the ads and providing some skipping capability. That's up in

866
00:54:57,343 --> 00:55:02,513
the app store. But the first version was spoofing itself

867
00:55:02,513 --> 00:55:05,903
as overcast. Now it's worked out that he can turn

868
00:55:05,903 --> 00:55:08,383
off that and he doesn't have to even give a

869
00:55:08,383 --> 00:55:12,633
user agent. Apple banks 30% from that app because it's

870
00:55:12,633 --> 00:55:16,543
a paid app. Apple could enforce every app to have

871
00:55:16,543 --> 00:55:19,923
a user agent before it is allowed into the app

872
00:55:19,923 --> 00:55:22,473
store. And that would fix it because then it would

873
00:55:22,473 --> 00:55:26,083
be a whitelist that we as hosts could then point

874
00:55:26,083 --> 00:55:29,003
ourselves to, oh, that's what it is. Okay, that would

875
00:55:29,003 --> 00:55:32,023
fix it, but Apple's never going to do this. I

876
00:55:32,023 --> 00:55:36,393
don't know if they're interested. So you're saying that this

877
00:55:36,393 --> 00:55:40,623
particular app is now claiming to be something like a

878
00:55:40,623 --> 00:55:44,323
web browser? Yeah, it can claim to be safari. It

879
00:55:44,323 --> 00:55:47,553
knows now that if it claims or reports itself, it

880
00:55:47,553 --> 00:55:50,423
will be blocked. So now it says, well, I'm going

881
00:55:50,423 --> 00:55:53,223
to illegally claim to be something else. And no one's

882
00:55:53,223 --> 00:55:57,133
policing me. So happy days. You know, that is interesting

883
00:55:57,133 --> 00:56:00,373
because that could be I'd seen I'd seen James mention

884
00:56:00,373 --> 00:56:03,833
that or heard him mentioned it. And I wasn't really

885
00:56:03,833 --> 00:56:06,423
following what he was saying, but now that you lay

886
00:56:06,423 --> 00:56:09,373
it out like that, I think I understand because if

887
00:56:09,373 --> 00:56:12,583
there was a user agent enforcement mechanism on apps, that

888
00:56:12,583 --> 00:56:15,713
really would make a big difference. That would help. Yeah,

889
00:56:15,713 --> 00:56:18,653
it definitely would help. And it's not like it's completely

890
00:56:18,653 --> 00:56:22,503
out of line with the other enforcement. I mean… Apple

891
00:56:22,503 --> 00:56:26,043
and Google enforce lots of things on app developers, and

892
00:56:26,043 --> 00:56:29,423
we know this because they – sometimes app developers have

893
00:56:29,423 --> 00:56:32,063
to email us and say, hey, I submitted my app

894
00:56:32,063 --> 00:56:35,523
for app review, and they say that I'm not allowed

895
00:56:35,523 --> 00:56:39,443
– they won't approve it unless I get written approval

896
00:56:39,443 --> 00:56:43,653
from Podcast Index that I can use your API. So

897
00:56:43,653 --> 00:56:47,973
they already enforce lots of different requirements like that. That

898
00:56:47,973 --> 00:56:51,263
is something that Apple and Google – I don't know

899
00:56:51,263 --> 00:56:53,193
that I agree with you, Sam, though, but I think

900
00:56:53,193 --> 00:56:56,923
that sounds like something they absolutely would do. I don't

901
00:56:56,923 --> 00:56:59,783
see how it hurts them at all. Well, how do

902
00:56:59,783 --> 00:57:02,403
we get them to do that? You know, we have

903
00:57:02,403 --> 00:57:05,503
friends in both camps, but nobody seems to want to...

904
00:57:08,293 --> 00:57:13,033
Nope. Hello? Sorry about that. I'm sorry about that. I'm

905
00:57:13,033 --> 00:57:16,403
sorry. I'm sorry. I was on the phone with Apple.

906
00:57:16,843 --> 00:57:19,553
Okay? I felt my brain turned inside out for a

907
00:57:19,553 --> 00:57:21,263
second. I'm sorry. I was on the phone with Apple.

908
00:57:21,523 --> 00:57:26,723
Yes. I don't know how you – that's the question

909
00:57:26,723 --> 00:57:31,863
of how do you get giant mega – Mega national

910
00:57:31,863 --> 00:57:36,263
corporations do anything. We can hear you coming back, Adam.

911
00:57:37,303 --> 00:57:40,473
You still hear me? Yeah, I'm hearing it. You're bleeding

912
00:57:40,473 --> 00:57:43,543
through, brother. I'm bleeping through. I'm sorry. All right. Thank

913
00:57:43,543 --> 00:57:47,203
you. I'll stop now. How do you get these humongous

914
00:57:47,203 --> 00:57:52,853
corporations to do anything? That is an unknown thing. Well,

915
00:57:52,853 --> 00:57:55,613
I think if you talk about it more and talk

916
00:57:55,613 --> 00:57:58,493
about it as a pain point, I mean, this week

917
00:57:58,493 --> 00:58:05,023
was crazy in podcast movement, you know. Tom Webster stood

918
00:58:05,023 --> 00:58:07,963
up on stage and said, you know, Netflix is basically

919
00:58:07,963 --> 00:58:10,743
one of the top three podcast platform apps. I'm like,

920
00:58:10,743 --> 00:58:13,783
where's that come from? Then Rob Walsh said, yeah, but

921
00:58:13,783 --> 00:58:18,103
Netflix has one in 67,000 podcasts, you know, so yours

922
00:58:18,103 --> 00:58:21,613
isn't going to be part of it. and then apple

923
00:58:21,613 --> 00:58:24,803
has a play that is zero you know literally one

924
00:58:24,803 --> 00:58:28,953
second um youtube has a play that is a hover

925
00:58:28,953 --> 00:58:32,213
um The amp record totally tried to get something to

926
00:58:32,213 --> 00:58:38,233
be 30 seconds. That lasted about 30 seconds. Yeah. That

927
00:58:38,233 --> 00:58:42,233
died as predicted. We knew that would die. Yeah. So

928
00:58:42,233 --> 00:58:44,143
nothing is, you know, so we've got this going off

929
00:58:44,143 --> 00:58:46,543
in the background about what is a play, what's the

930
00:58:46,543 --> 00:58:49,323
analytics. And then we've got user agents. There's a lot

931
00:58:49,323 --> 00:58:51,113
in the air right now I think that we have

932
00:58:51,113 --> 00:58:53,593
to fix and not quite sure how we go about

933
00:58:53,593 --> 00:58:57,133
it. Well, I think from experience, we all know that

934
00:58:57,133 --> 00:59:00,853
you that you can't fix stupid things at once. Well,

935
00:59:00,853 --> 00:59:04,643
there's that too. You can't you can't fix 10 things

936
00:59:04,643 --> 00:59:07,283
at once. You got to you got to like make

937
00:59:07,283 --> 00:59:11,383
make your list and hit the biggest ones. To me,

938
00:59:11,383 --> 00:59:14,433
the list of things that have to be fixed always

939
00:59:14,433 --> 00:59:17,523
come down into two camps. It's like, is it realistic

940
00:59:17,523 --> 00:59:21,063
this will ever be fixed? Well, okay, once you get

941
00:59:21,063 --> 00:59:24,533
through that filter, which one is the most likely to

942
00:59:24,533 --> 00:59:28,063
be fixed? Not which one is the thing that hurts

943
00:59:28,063 --> 00:59:31,823
the most, but which one is the – Which which

944
00:59:31,823 --> 00:59:35,593
issue that you're trying to solve is most likely to

945
00:59:35,593 --> 00:59:39,643
receive a favorable ear from the people from from this

946
00:59:39,643 --> 00:59:44,153
other group? And if you can if you hit that

947
00:59:44,153 --> 00:59:48,123
one. And then the next most likely, instead of trying

948
00:59:48,123 --> 00:59:51,043
to solve your hardest problem first or your worst problem

949
00:59:51,043 --> 00:59:53,943
first, if you solve the one that you're most likely

950
00:59:53,943 --> 00:59:57,123
to find agreement on first, then over time you build

951
00:59:57,123 --> 00:59:59,923
a consensus or a base in order to start working.

952
01:00:00,399 --> 01:00:04,479
next hardest thing. And I mean, I think at least

953
01:00:04,479 --> 01:00:09,049
Spotify has shown zero interest in playing in the open

954
01:00:09,049 --> 01:00:13,079
podcast world at all. They just seem to not care.

955
01:00:13,699 --> 01:00:16,729
Apple, on the other hand, I think Apple Podcasts, that

956
01:00:16,729 --> 01:00:20,399
team over there, I think they would love nothing more.

957
01:00:20,679 --> 01:00:25,459
than to see App Store review enforce user agents to

958
01:00:25,459 --> 01:00:27,969
make these other podcast apps identify themselves. If they do

959
01:00:27,969 --> 01:00:30,799
it, everybody will do it. So that would be great.

960
01:00:31,359 --> 01:00:34,139
Yeah, I think the biggest problem is it's mini-thiefdoms inside

961
01:00:34,139 --> 01:00:40,279
of Apple. So the podcast team won't have App Store...

962
01:00:40,489 --> 01:00:44,079
input i mean you look at apple it it's got

963
01:00:44,079 --> 01:00:47,259
siloed all over it right so the the app music

964
01:00:47,259 --> 01:00:50,829
the app audio books the app for podcasting all separate

965
01:00:50,829 --> 01:00:54,289
look at amazon exactly the same audible is different to

966
01:00:54,289 --> 01:00:57,309
amazon music is different to wandry is different to art

967
01:00:57,309 --> 01:01:01,819
19. um this is corporate um, fiefdoms being exposed at

968
01:01:01,819 --> 01:01:05,729
the front end, whereas Spotify is an aggregated app. At

969
01:01:05,729 --> 01:01:08,359
least it appears to the consumer as one out with

970
01:01:08,359 --> 01:01:11,349
audio books, podcasts, and music. Well, we had, we had

971
01:01:11,349 --> 01:01:14,809
this solution kind of bubbling for a little bit, which

972
01:01:14,809 --> 01:01:22,539
is the idea of registering your, um, your ID, your,

973
01:01:22,659 --> 01:01:28,739
what's the word I'm looking for? Your, user agent? Yeah.

974
01:01:29,079 --> 01:01:32,579
Are you talking about the HTTP signing? Oh, whatever it

975
01:01:32,579 --> 01:01:35,729
is. I mean, yeah, HTTP signing. I think that's what

976
01:01:35,729 --> 01:01:39,829
it was. In general, look, Google forced HTTPS on us

977
01:01:39,829 --> 01:01:44,129
for everything. Yes. So why don't we get them to

978
01:01:44,129 --> 01:01:48,099
enforce this for everything? This would actually, it doesn't matter

979
01:01:48,099 --> 01:01:50,889
too much to me, but it does matter to people

980
01:01:50,889 --> 01:01:53,349
who are paying for bandwidth, although we just heard I

981
01:01:53,349 --> 01:01:56,029
should start a CDN because it's pennies. It's fractions of

982
01:01:56,029 --> 01:01:58,239
pennies now, so that's a new business I'm working on.

983
01:01:59,959 --> 01:02:02,209
But at the same time, it is costing people money,

984
01:02:02,209 --> 01:02:05,329
and it would be nice if we had the ability

985
01:02:05,329 --> 01:02:09,809
to say, no, not you, you know. But yeah, no,

986
01:02:09,809 --> 01:02:12,999
not you or only you or whatever it is. And

987
01:02:12,999 --> 01:02:18,289
that should go for browsers, too. Well, I don't really

988
01:02:18,289 --> 01:02:22,189
know about – I don't want to go back down

989
01:02:22,189 --> 01:02:27,209
the signing argument. You already tried that. Yeah, and we

990
01:02:27,209 --> 01:02:30,389
do it. We do it. That's how you can tell

991
01:02:30,389 --> 01:02:33,359
if it's us. If you want to know if it's

992
01:02:33,359 --> 01:02:37,359
the podcast index aggregator – We sign our request with

993
01:02:37,359 --> 01:02:39,819
a public key. You can verify that it is us.

994
01:02:39,959 --> 01:02:42,179
So we do – we put our money where our

995
01:02:42,179 --> 01:02:45,149
mouth is. We're walking the walk. And I don't want

996
01:02:45,149 --> 01:02:49,739
to like re-litigate that whole thing. Oh, my God. You're

997
01:02:49,739 --> 01:02:53,409
buzzing like crazy. I know. Well, not anymore. Move the

998
01:02:53,409 --> 01:02:57,049
chocolate. I swallowed my chocolate. But – Like I don't

999
01:02:57,049 --> 01:02:58,929
want to relitigate that whole thing, but at the same

1000
01:02:58,929 --> 01:03:04,549
time, this – I think what we're seeing is an

1001
01:03:04,549 --> 01:03:08,489
escalation in – The issue of apps being impersonated –

1002
01:03:08,489 --> 01:03:14,379
it's an impersonation and escalation. That's what we're seeing. And

1003
01:03:14,379 --> 01:03:17,079
like – so if you're an app – like I

1004
01:03:17,079 --> 01:03:20,729
know that there's – you know, Spurlock and Mark and

1005
01:03:20,729 --> 01:03:24,039
all these. I know that they have – There are

1006
01:03:24,039 --> 01:03:26,799
legitimate reasons not to want to do this, but at

1007
01:03:26,799 --> 01:03:29,979
the same time, if you see millions of requests claiming

1008
01:03:29,979 --> 01:03:32,859
that they're you but they're not, that's also – you

1009
01:03:32,859 --> 01:03:37,249
have to admit that's a problem. Because what if they're

1010
01:03:37,249 --> 01:03:40,339
being abusive and it's not your app doing it? Yeah.

1011
01:03:40,819 --> 01:03:43,799
Well, the biggest problem is if you keep spoofing that

1012
01:03:43,799 --> 01:03:47,749
you're overcast and suddenly people block overcast. Yes. And the

1013
01:03:47,749 --> 01:03:51,349
legitimate overcast thing gets blocked. Then, you know, Marco's going

1014
01:03:51,349 --> 01:03:53,419
to be very upset. And I would be too if

1015
01:03:53,419 --> 01:03:57,059
it was true fans getting blocked. So... Before we get

1016
01:03:57,059 --> 01:03:59,839
to that problem, let's try and fix it because we

1017
01:03:59,839 --> 01:04:01,869
know that's the problem that will bite us in the

1018
01:04:01,869 --> 01:04:05,639
future. And I think that was the biggest misunderstanding of

1019
01:04:05,639 --> 01:04:08,509
that whole argument is that it was looked at from

1020
01:04:08,509 --> 01:04:12,149
the standpoint of if you have signing, then you can

1021
01:04:12,149 --> 01:04:15,379
get blocked. But the whole point of it was to

1022
01:04:15,379 --> 01:04:18,599
not get blocked. That was the whole point of it

1023
01:04:18,599 --> 01:04:20,899
was if you sign your stuff, we'll know how we'll

1024
01:04:20,899 --> 01:04:23,029
know you're that you are who you are and we'll

1025
01:04:23,029 --> 01:04:26,599
know not to block you. And so, like, I think

1026
01:04:26,599 --> 01:04:34,319
the incentive to. The incentive to not block a legitimate

1027
01:04:34,319 --> 01:04:39,849
app is stronger than the incentive to block a legitimate

1028
01:04:39,849 --> 01:04:46,689
app. So at what point would a hosting company or

1029
01:04:46,689 --> 01:04:52,219
provider... Want to block legitimate download traffic from a real

1030
01:04:52,219 --> 01:04:58,129
app? I can't think of one. So Tom Rossi at

1031
01:04:58,129 --> 01:05:01,049
the PSP has proposed this. I think it's on the

1032
01:05:01,049 --> 01:05:06,269
GitHub as well. The only other negative I heard was

1033
01:05:06,269 --> 01:05:10,079
the podcast apps that are serverless wouldn't be able to

1034
01:05:10,079 --> 01:05:13,409
participate. Now, I don't understand that enough. But that's one

1035
01:05:13,409 --> 01:05:16,459
of the arguments. Say that again. Say that again. So

1036
01:05:16,459 --> 01:05:20,069
the apps that are serverless would not be able to

1037
01:05:20,069 --> 01:05:24,329
participate in a signing because they don't have a back

1038
01:05:24,329 --> 01:05:27,139
end to sign against. I understand the argument, but I

1039
01:05:27,139 --> 01:05:30,239
think that's easy to work around with like an escrow.

1040
01:05:30,739 --> 01:05:33,899
Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I don't think that's a problem

1041
01:05:33,899 --> 01:05:36,099
at all. I mean, I would – the podcast, I

1042
01:05:36,099 --> 01:05:38,959
would be totally willing to host an escrow on behalf

1043
01:05:38,959 --> 01:05:43,889
of serverless apps. I mean, like, completely open. We could

1044
01:05:43,889 --> 01:05:46,259
– it's – it costs us nothing. Why don't we

1045
01:05:46,259 --> 01:05:50,109
just – how about this? Let's just do it. Let's

1046
01:05:50,109 --> 01:05:53,419
just build it. Build an escrow for all apps, for

1047
01:05:53,419 --> 01:05:57,549
all I care. And just make it a thing. And

1048
01:05:57,549 --> 01:05:59,039
then maybe someone will pick it up and say, oh,

1049
01:05:59,039 --> 01:06:01,069
look what these guys are doing. And that's good. I

1050
01:06:01,069 --> 01:06:03,719
mean, that's how things usually work in this world. You

1051
01:06:03,719 --> 01:06:06,439
build it. You push it. It's like any other type

1052
01:06:06,439 --> 01:06:09,099
of content. Oh, here's a new tag. Oh, here's a

1053
01:06:09,099 --> 01:06:11,439
key to sign with. Oh, I kind of like that.

1054
01:06:11,799 --> 01:06:17,429
We can get a nonce or some sort of key

1055
01:06:17,429 --> 01:06:21,869
signing material, give it to an app developer. They can

1056
01:06:21,869 --> 01:06:25,299
sign it with their key, put their public key in

1057
01:06:25,299 --> 01:06:28,639
our escrow, and then we have verified that they are

1058
01:06:28,639 --> 01:06:31,979
who they say they are, and then we'll basically co-sign.

1059
01:06:32,799 --> 01:06:35,919
I'm fine with that. You know we'll join you. You

1060
01:06:35,919 --> 01:06:40,339
know that. As always. We've got nothing else to do.

1061
01:06:40,519 --> 01:06:44,659
We've been waiting for you. You already finished the internet.

1062
01:06:45,879 --> 01:06:49,079
We got to the end. We're like, now what? How's

1063
01:06:49,079 --> 01:06:55,869
business doing in general, Sam? Pretty good. Daily signups of

1064
01:06:55,869 --> 01:07:00,749
users about five, 600 people. Wow. Yeah, and hosts about

1065
01:07:00,749 --> 01:07:05,069
20 to 30 a day minimum. With some days we

1066
01:07:05,069 --> 01:07:08,209
spike at 50. So it's good. It's good. It's going

1067
01:07:08,209 --> 01:07:11,859
well. We... I mean, I'm going to reveal something that

1068
01:07:11,859 --> 01:07:16,059
you might not be aware of. So Mo, my developer

1069
01:07:16,059 --> 01:07:20,329
who is stuck in Afghanistan. Afghanistan. Yes, I know. He

1070
01:07:20,329 --> 01:07:23,229
was in Iran. He got out just before the Internet

1071
01:07:23,229 --> 01:07:27,169
was turned off. He was in Afghanistan living in his

1072
01:07:27,169 --> 01:07:31,539
uncle's. a farmyard just outside a car, but how that

1073
01:07:31,539 --> 01:07:33,999
guy delivers anything to me, I have no idea. Sam,

1074
01:07:33,999 --> 01:07:36,219
one day you're going to have to tell the story

1075
01:07:36,219 --> 01:07:39,289
of how you know this guy. I mean, like, it

1076
01:07:39,289 --> 01:07:43,799
sounds like he's always in the deepest, darkest. I'm thinking

1077
01:07:43,799 --> 01:07:47,829
since he's from Afghanistan, it was probably Sam's old import-export

1078
01:07:47,829 --> 01:07:52,819
business. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no. No, I won't

1079
01:07:52,819 --> 01:07:55,599
tell you who, but I was at a podcast movement

1080
01:07:55,599 --> 01:07:59,299
three years ago and they wanted to invest into true

1081
01:07:59,299 --> 01:08:01,819
fans and we shook hands, quarter of a million. And

1082
01:08:01,819 --> 01:08:04,369
then I got a phone call at eight o'clock the

1083
01:08:04,369 --> 01:08:07,699
next morning because I'd spoken and said, oh, Mo's in

1084
01:08:07,699 --> 01:08:10,569
Iran. You know, that's where my CTO is. And he

1085
01:08:10,569 --> 01:08:12,979
went, I do work with the government. We can't do

1086
01:08:12,979 --> 01:08:17,309
this. And that was it. It was just removed. I've

1087
01:08:17,309 --> 01:08:20,579
never revealed this. I'm quite happy to do it on

1088
01:08:20,579 --> 01:08:26,189
this show. Yes. We've raised two million out of 10

1089
01:08:26,189 --> 01:08:28,709
million valuation. That's what we did. We did that back

1090
01:08:28,709 --> 01:08:32,429
at the beginning. Congratulations. No, not excellent because while Mo

1091
01:08:32,429 --> 01:08:35,159
is in Afghanistan, they won't give me the money. It's

1092
01:08:35,159 --> 01:08:38,299
stuck in a bank account. So he's currently at an

1093
01:08:38,299 --> 01:08:41,979
airport. All two million? All. Nothing will be. So he's

1094
01:08:41,979 --> 01:08:45,019
currently at an airport on his way to Dubai. We

1095
01:08:45,019 --> 01:08:47,859
have to now send a photo next week with a

1096
01:08:47,859 --> 01:08:52,029
geolocated photo. Can't be AI. It's like, no. Proof is

1097
01:08:52,029 --> 01:08:55,209
out. Of him standing in front of the Dubai airport,

1098
01:08:55,209 --> 01:08:59,759
right? Something, anything. It's KYD, know your developer. You've got

1099
01:08:59,759 --> 01:09:01,500
to do a whole – wait a minute, wait a

1100
01:09:01,500 --> 01:09:04,619
minute. Hold on. Stop for a second. Right. So this

1101
01:09:04,619 --> 01:09:09,129
is 2 million pounds sterling, I'm presuming. Yes. Yep. And

1102
01:09:09,129 --> 01:09:13,829
from what I understand, you did this under an interesting

1103
01:09:13,829 --> 01:09:20,819
– UK specific financing law for small business. EIS, yeah.

1104
01:09:20,939 --> 01:09:24,679
Yeah, so you got a bunch of... High net worth.

1105
01:09:24,879 --> 01:09:27,349
Yes, that's the term I'm looking for. High net worth

1106
01:09:27,349 --> 01:09:30,519
who actually get a tax benefit for making this investment.

1107
01:09:30,959 --> 01:09:33,589
Their tax benefit probably doesn't count until they make the

1108
01:09:33,589 --> 01:09:37,339
actual investment, but I'm trying to make the connection to

1109
01:09:37,339 --> 01:09:40,369
why this is being held because, Is it being held

1110
01:09:40,369 --> 01:09:45,479
by them? Yes. The lead investors basically through due diligence.

1111
01:09:45,619 --> 01:09:47,599
I'm not going to lie because it'll come out in

1112
01:09:47,599 --> 01:09:51,739
discovery anyway. So when you tell them where he is,

1113
01:09:51,739 --> 01:09:53,439
they go, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

1114
01:09:53,679 --> 01:09:55,739
No, that's too dangerous. We won't do it. But if

1115
01:09:55,739 --> 01:09:57,859
you can get him out and put him somewhere else

1116
01:09:57,859 --> 01:09:59,979
where we think it's a safe country, we'll

1117
01:10:00,032 --> 01:10:02,411
We'll release the money. And we're like, okay, come on.

1118
01:10:02,891 --> 01:10:05,351
So we've been trying and trying. Oh, man. Hey, but

1119
01:10:05,351 --> 01:10:08,751
listen, if you need help, I do have contacts in

1120
01:10:08,751 --> 01:10:14,501
that area. Right. I do. I do. Okay. Certainly getting

1121
01:10:14,501 --> 01:10:17,021
people out of a country. If he doesn't mind the

1122
01:10:17,021 --> 01:10:22,141
military, C-130 military transport. I don't care how you get

1123
01:10:22,141 --> 01:10:26,091
him out. It's not very comfortable, but we probably can

1124
01:10:26,091 --> 01:10:28,301
bust them out, man, if he has some kind of

1125
01:10:28,301 --> 01:10:31,532
paperwork. My wife will agree with you because our savings

1126
01:10:31,532 --> 01:10:33,791
are dropping like a rocket right now with me funding.

1127
01:10:34,131 --> 01:10:36,541
Yeah, I hear you. Yeah, it'll be lovely if we

1128
01:10:36,541 --> 01:10:39,442
can because it's so, it's awful. I can see the

1129
01:10:39,442 --> 01:10:42,161
money because I've got access to the account. It's sitting

1130
01:10:42,161 --> 01:10:46,501
there, but I can't access it. Because if I do,

1131
01:10:46,501 --> 01:10:49,241
then obviously the investors will come at me. I mean,

1132
01:10:49,241 --> 01:10:52,131
the EIS is a great scheme in the UK. It

1133
01:10:52,131 --> 01:10:55,121
stands for Enterprise Investment Scheme. And what it means is

1134
01:10:55,121 --> 01:10:57,612
if you've got a tax bill, let's say a hundred

1135
01:10:57,612 --> 01:11:00,921
thousand pound tax bill, you can put that money legitimately

1136
01:11:00,921 --> 01:11:04,782
into a certified startup. Yeah, that's great. And then as

1137
01:11:04,782 --> 01:11:09,171
long as that startup survives three years, you get 75%

1138
01:11:09,171 --> 01:11:14,471
of that back as, you know, relief. Tax relief. Yeah.

1139
01:11:14,612 --> 01:11:17,731
And if I fail, they get 75%. And if I

1140
01:11:17,731 --> 01:11:21,862
make a killing, then it's capital gains free. So they

1141
01:11:21,862 --> 01:11:24,942
don't pay tax on the upside. I love how the

1142
01:11:24,942 --> 01:11:27,951
British I love how the British call. They just straight

1143
01:11:27,951 --> 01:11:30,891
up call this a scheme. It took me a while

1144
01:11:30,891 --> 01:11:34,561
to figure that one out. Yeah. You have the BBC

1145
01:11:34,561 --> 01:11:38,491
licensing scheme as well. Everything's a scheme over there. Schemers.

1146
01:11:38,491 --> 01:11:41,331
I'm telling you, the British schemers at least is honest.

1147
01:11:41,471 --> 01:11:44,331
Yeah. Well, Sam, send me a note later. I'm happy

1148
01:11:44,331 --> 01:11:46,152
to see if I can. can put you in touch

1149
01:11:46,152 --> 01:11:47,671
with somebody who can help him. As long as he

1150
01:11:47,671 --> 01:11:51,811
has some kind of paperwork, everything's possible. He literally got

1151
01:11:51,811 --> 01:11:55,501
his passport about a week ago. Don't ask. Well, I

1152
01:11:55,501 --> 01:11:59,081
don't ask. And he got a visa as well. Again,

1153
01:11:59,081 --> 01:12:02,431
I don't ask. A visa for Dubai or for the

1154
01:12:02,431 --> 01:12:06,011
U.S.? Yeah, Dubai. Well, this guy is critical to the

1155
01:12:06,011 --> 01:12:10,551
podcasting 2.0 ecosystem. We need to help. We got to

1156
01:12:10,551 --> 01:12:13,251
stick him in a hubcap and spin him out of

1157
01:12:13,251 --> 01:12:18,491
there. Hold on to that wheel, mate. You're going out.

1158
01:12:20,251 --> 01:12:23,612
Things are going to get a little dicey. Wow. Oh,

1159
01:12:23,612 --> 01:12:25,491
I'm sorry to hear that, but we'll see what we

1160
01:12:25,491 --> 01:12:27,211
can do for you, man. We'll definitely see what we

1161
01:12:27,211 --> 01:12:28,822
can do for you. Well, I just find it amazing

1162
01:12:28,822 --> 01:12:30,402
when I go to Mo every day, because we talk

1163
01:12:30,402 --> 01:12:32,461
every day, and I go, "Hey, we've got this crazy

1164
01:12:32,461 --> 01:12:35,201
idea for this feature or function, whatever." And he goes,

1165
01:12:35,201 --> 01:12:36,652
"Yeah, leave it with me." And a day or two

1166
01:12:36,652 --> 01:12:39,311
later, it's done. And I go, "How are you doing

1167
01:12:39,311 --> 01:12:42,362
this?" the the you know i moan about my broadband

1168
01:12:42,362 --> 01:12:45,551
connection in the uk and he's probably got you know

1169
01:12:45,641 --> 01:12:48,271
one hand pointed out the window with an air to

1170
01:12:48,271 --> 01:12:51,501
try and get some internet access, you know. Yeah, and

1171
01:12:51,501 --> 01:12:54,841
this is pre, and he was doing this pre-AI. I

1172
01:12:54,841 --> 01:12:58,931
mean, he was coding features in 24 hours way before

1173
01:12:58,931 --> 01:13:04,351
AI even existed. Exactly. Yeah. Now, thanks to Claude, we...

1174
01:13:04,471 --> 01:13:08,041
We are rebuilding all of TrueFans at the moment. Oh,

1175
01:13:08,041 --> 01:13:12,311
really? Oh, okay. That's interesting. I have found that, I

1176
01:13:12,311 --> 01:13:14,271
don't know if you're in the same boat, but when

1177
01:13:14,271 --> 01:13:17,451
you build things very fast, you have a lot to

1178
01:13:17,451 --> 01:13:20,391
go back and clean up after the fact. Oh, yeah.

1179
01:13:20,532 --> 01:13:25,121
I mean, refactoring is essential. But one of the... By

1180
01:13:25,121 --> 01:13:28,711
hook by crook, we got lucky. We didn't plan it.

1181
01:13:28,711 --> 01:13:31,541
We built it as a PWA to begin with because

1182
01:13:31,541 --> 01:13:35,851
we didn't have the iOS and Android native skills. So

1183
01:13:35,851 --> 01:13:38,471
we said, right, we'll build it as a PWA. And

1184
01:13:38,471 --> 01:13:41,782
then we put the wrapper around it and submitted it

1185
01:13:41,782 --> 01:13:45,301
to the app stores and they approved it. What's really

1186
01:13:45,301 --> 01:13:48,731
interesting is we don't then have to put for every

1187
01:13:48,731 --> 01:13:51,862
new feature we push to the PWA. Yeah, you just

1188
01:13:51,862 --> 01:13:53,822
push it to the PWA. Yeah, we don't have to

1189
01:13:53,822 --> 01:13:56,381
get approval every time we have a new feature, which

1190
01:13:56,381 --> 01:13:58,661
is why we've been able to accelerate so fast with

1191
01:13:58,661 --> 01:14:00,561
all the things we do. But are you going to

1192
01:14:00,561 --> 01:14:04,271
go fully native eventually? Exactly. now with now we're feature

1193
01:14:04,271 --> 01:14:06,851
complete or at least i think we're feature complete well

1194
01:14:06,851 --> 01:14:09,711
just stand by new new tags coming up but yeah

1195
01:14:09,711 --> 01:14:13,152
i mean that's what we're doing right now because we

1196
01:14:13,152 --> 01:14:17,871
can't get are you Yeah, exactly. Android Auto and CarPlay.

1197
01:14:18,171 --> 01:14:21,711
Exactly. Now, are you considering putting everything in there, like

1198
01:14:21,711 --> 01:14:24,961
with the kitchen sink, with the newsletter capability, basically creating

1199
01:14:24,961 --> 01:14:27,761
a sub stack? It's going to be a pure native,

1200
01:14:27,761 --> 01:14:32,681
yeah. We have so many micro issues that our user

1201
01:14:32,681 --> 01:14:37,521
experience. experiences that you know limit us so good example

1202
01:14:37,521 --> 01:14:40,572
when it goes to the iphone screen when you're playing

1203
01:14:40,572 --> 01:14:42,971
a podcast yeah don't lock it button doesn't yeah the

1204
01:14:42,971 --> 01:14:45,152
play button doesn't yeah you have to open it in

1205
01:14:45,152 --> 01:14:47,211
order to play right it just doesn't work you don't

1206
01:14:47,211 --> 01:14:50,242
have to tell us we've been we've been through this

1207
01:14:50,242 --> 01:14:53,652
pain many many times And so I just bit the

1208
01:14:53,652 --> 01:14:55,771
bullet and said to Mo, look, forget it. Let's just

1209
01:14:55,771 --> 01:14:58,431
stop building new stuff. Let's get to a point where

1210
01:14:58,431 --> 01:15:01,021
we're happy. And then let's just build a native and

1211
01:15:01,021 --> 01:15:04,362
then submit them. So that's what we're doing. Yeah. And

1212
01:15:04,362 --> 01:15:06,781
then you get to get on the bandwagon of waiting

1213
01:15:06,781 --> 01:15:09,862
two weeks for approval. Yeah. Yeah. But that's just the

1214
01:15:09,862 --> 01:15:11,341
way life is. I mean, it's just the way it

1215
01:15:11,341 --> 01:15:13,492
is. You can't change that. You've got to play that

1216
01:15:13,492 --> 01:15:18,112
game. Yeah, and I mean, Paul, because one thing Paul's

1217
01:15:18,112 --> 01:15:21,751
doing right now with Godcaster is having to re-architect the

1218
01:15:21,751 --> 01:15:26,951
whole thing for Android. What started it was Android Automotive.

1219
01:15:27,492 --> 01:15:30,402
Mm-hmm. You know, which is the new version that's replacing

1220
01:15:30,402 --> 01:15:34,641
Android Auto. And evidently, it's a completely different animal. And

1221
01:15:34,641 --> 01:15:38,331
so that just really got none of the existing stuff

1222
01:15:38,331 --> 01:15:41,001
framework that he was using would work. So he had

1223
01:15:41,001 --> 01:15:44,322
to just refactor the whole app from scratch. And like

1224
01:15:44,322 --> 01:15:46,862
that's going to be the new. But you're going to

1225
01:15:46,862 --> 01:15:50,971
have to because Google. is way more aggressive at deprecating

1226
01:15:50,971 --> 01:15:55,331
stuff than Apple is. Oh, we lost access to the

1227
01:15:55,331 --> 01:16:00,431
Google store recently because we wanted it. Again, the UK

1228
01:16:00,431 --> 01:16:04,201
is weird. We've got these codes that determine what your

1229
01:16:04,201 --> 01:16:08,362
company is, right? So they're called SIC codes, S-I-C. It's

1230
01:16:08,362 --> 01:16:12,171
a scheme. Yeah. Yes. And Audio UK has now got

1231
01:16:12,171 --> 01:16:17,402
the UK government to agree on two new denominations. One

1232
01:16:17,402 --> 01:16:21,671
is podcast producer and one is podcast sort of app.

1233
01:16:21,671 --> 01:16:24,891
That's not the exact ones, but that's roughly what it

1234
01:16:24,891 --> 01:16:27,951
is. There's two codes. And so we wanted to be

1235
01:16:27,951 --> 01:16:31,261
listed as a podcast app. I don't know what the

1236
01:16:31,261 --> 01:16:33,981
benefit or downside would be, but I wanted to do

1237
01:16:33,981 --> 01:16:39,311
it. So we took the opportunity to take Trufans FM

1238
01:16:39,311 --> 01:16:41,911
Limited as our company name from what it was before,

1239
01:16:41,911 --> 01:16:47,101
which was Trufans Technologies. Anyway, because we've just changed the

1240
01:16:47,101 --> 01:16:49,511
limited company name, Google just took us out of the

1241
01:16:49,511 --> 01:16:53,561
app store. Oh, no. So we had to reapply. Apple,

1242
01:16:53,561 --> 01:16:56,831
no change. Didn't care. Don't worry. They'll screw you with

1243
01:16:56,831 --> 01:17:00,572
something else. They always do. That sounds like the American

1244
01:17:00,572 --> 01:17:06,711
NAICS stuff. It's like a company... like industry code. Yes,

1245
01:17:06,711 --> 01:17:10,152
exactly. Designate, yeah. I think that, isn't that, doesn't that

1246
01:17:10,152 --> 01:17:12,811
all come down to like insurance or something? I'm not

1247
01:17:12,811 --> 01:17:15,112
sure what the value of it is, but it was

1248
01:17:15,112 --> 01:17:17,511
one of those, it came out, Audio UK had done

1249
01:17:17,511 --> 01:17:19,211
the work. I thought, oh, let me try and do

1250
01:17:19,211 --> 01:17:21,771
that for my own company then. you know, trying to

1251
01:17:21,771 --> 01:17:24,331
eat the latest, greatest thing. And then, of course, I

1252
01:17:24,331 --> 01:17:27,671
screwed myself over, but hey. So how do you remedy

1253
01:17:27,671 --> 01:17:31,161
that? What do you do? We create a new account

1254
01:17:31,161 --> 01:17:35,072
on Google in the Google Play Store. We resubmit and

1255
01:17:35,072 --> 01:17:38,371
then we put it in. Start over from zero. Yeah,

1256
01:17:38,371 --> 01:17:43,371
exactly. Wow. Well, this is depressing, Sam. Tell me something.

1257
01:17:43,371 --> 01:17:48,041
No, it's not. Got to ramp up that wine business,

1258
01:17:48,041 --> 01:17:56,121
man. Podcasting is a bust. No, I think what I'm

1259
01:17:56,121 --> 01:18:01,881
seeing is – Premium content is now becoming much more

1260
01:18:01,881 --> 01:18:06,311
prevalent. I think people are beginning to accept painful quality

1261
01:18:06,311 --> 01:18:11,041
content. Stripe, I don't know if you saw, I posted

1262
01:18:11,041 --> 01:18:13,902
yesterday, they've got pay by bank, which I think is

1263
01:18:13,902 --> 01:18:18,251
really interesting. We've just enabled it. Again, I think there's

1264
01:18:18,251 --> 01:18:22,621
stuff happening. We still haven't got that micropayment, you know,

1265
01:18:22,621 --> 01:18:24,572
the way that we all want it to be. I

1266
01:18:24,572 --> 01:18:28,251
think there's still hope there. I'm not sure how yet.

1267
01:18:29,251 --> 01:18:31,281
And look, I think, you know, we are moving the

1268
01:18:31,281 --> 01:18:34,751
needle forward. You know, HLS is there now. We have

1269
01:18:34,751 --> 01:18:38,072
got audio, video. We are seeing the alternative enclosure used.

1270
01:18:39,492 --> 01:18:42,322
If you look at all the tags... and the lag

1271
01:18:42,322 --> 01:18:46,362
between thought and implementation is about three years but it's

1272
01:18:46,362 --> 01:18:50,961
all happening So I'm really positive. Okay. I'm glad you

1273
01:18:50,961 --> 01:18:57,902
are. If we can avoid – I guess the thing

1274
01:18:57,902 --> 01:19:02,011
I'm mostly concerned about is just avoiding an economic crash

1275
01:19:02,011 --> 01:19:05,561
at this point. I feel like the AI bubble is

1276
01:19:05,561 --> 01:19:10,871
so close to popping. Well, it's only 3.8% of GDP.

1277
01:19:12,531 --> 01:19:16,322
3.8% does a lot. I had some clips I was

1278
01:19:16,322 --> 01:19:19,371
going to play today before we knew you were going

1279
01:19:19,371 --> 01:19:22,591
to be on, Sam. And, like, I mean, I'm pretty

1280
01:19:22,591 --> 01:19:26,561
concerned about that. And I think that's one of the

1281
01:19:26,561 --> 01:19:30,631
reasons why Bitcoin is going up is – Not because

1282
01:19:30,631 --> 01:19:35,261
of money printing, but because of – like what I

1283
01:19:35,261 --> 01:19:39,471
was hearing was that the AI debt markets have grown

1284
01:19:39,471 --> 01:19:46,621
so large that they're now competing with treasury auctions. That's

1285
01:19:46,621 --> 01:19:51,851
right. That is insane. That cannot be a good thing.

1286
01:19:52,492 --> 01:19:54,661
And you're talking about they're competing with treasury markets, and

1287
01:19:54,661 --> 01:19:59,992
they're already at like 10% on a note. Really? Oh.

1288
01:20:00,053 --> 01:20:02,963
This is not going to end well. This is the

1289
01:20:02,963 --> 01:20:06,043
beginning of a... Because when you're... When you see that,

1290
01:20:06,043 --> 01:20:08,783
that means the only way that the treasury market survives

1291
01:20:08,783 --> 01:20:12,773
is by increasing to match those interest rates. You've got

1292
01:20:12,773 --> 01:20:15,393
to increase interest rates, yeah. Yeah, you've got to increase

1293
01:20:15,393 --> 01:20:18,403
the yield. Well, then we have Buffalo Besant. His idea

1294
01:20:18,403 --> 01:20:20,773
is to get everybody to use our debt as a

1295
01:20:20,773 --> 01:20:24,223
stable coin, which I think is a good gambit. I

1296
01:20:24,223 --> 01:20:27,223
really do. I still think it's a good gambit. Yeah,

1297
01:20:27,223 --> 01:20:30,283
and what I'm saying is Get Mo out of there

1298
01:20:30,283 --> 01:20:35,133
as soon as possible. Get your money. Yeah, yeah. Yeah,

1299
01:20:35,133 --> 01:20:37,993
put that stuff in cash and hold on. We're going

1300
01:20:37,993 --> 01:20:39,793
to have to do an extract. You know how the

1301
01:20:39,793 --> 01:20:42,623
CIA extractions work, Sam? It's like Mo has to go

1302
01:20:42,623 --> 01:20:45,003
into a field and he has like this big rubber

1303
01:20:45,003 --> 01:20:47,623
band. And the plane comes down with the hook. The

1304
01:20:47,623 --> 01:20:50,123
hook. I'm not kidding you. Yeah, the hook. And it

1305
01:20:50,123 --> 01:20:52,643
– and it whisks them off into the air behind

1306
01:20:52,643 --> 01:20:55,323
the plane and then they reel them in slowly. So

1307
01:20:55,323 --> 01:20:58,643
don't drop your laptop. Yeah. Exactly. He needs a backpack.

1308
01:20:58,723 --> 01:21:00,243
That's got all the code on it. No, don't do

1309
01:21:00,243 --> 01:21:03,903
that, please. Get him a backpack. Hey, Sam, we appreciate

1310
01:21:03,903 --> 01:21:07,083
so much what you do, man. We joke around. We

1311
01:21:07,083 --> 01:21:11,463
have fun. But you've been leading so much in all

1312
01:21:11,463 --> 01:21:15,243
of the 2.0 development. And we really want you to

1313
01:21:15,243 --> 01:21:18,013
succeed. So whatever we can do. Thank you. Obviously, we

1314
01:21:18,013 --> 01:21:20,663
want to help. you can hang around if you want

1315
01:21:20,663 --> 01:21:22,273
I'm just going to thank a few people because I

1316
01:21:22,273 --> 01:21:24,863
did hear some some boosts coming I'll hang in there

1317
01:21:24,863 --> 01:21:27,303
hang in there very good I have to tell you

1318
01:21:27,303 --> 01:21:30,883
my family by the way is not allowed between 6.30

1319
01:21:30,883 --> 01:21:32,623
and 8 o'clock to talk to me on a Friday

1320
01:21:32,623 --> 01:21:38,353
night I understand we've had arguments it's like my wife's

1321
01:21:38,353 --> 01:21:42,053
booked theater tickets I'm not going Oh no, the dinner,

1322
01:21:42,053 --> 01:21:45,573
oh no. I don't go anywhere. It's like, nope. at

1323
01:21:45,573 --> 01:21:47,963
least you went to your own birthday party in the

1324
01:21:47,963 --> 01:21:50,083
back garden well that's a Saturday no it had to

1325
01:21:50,083 --> 01:21:54,953
be a Saturday okay okay let me see this is

1326
01:21:54,953 --> 01:21:58,663
so we are value for value everything you support this

1327
01:21:58,663 --> 01:22:01,533
podcast with doesn't go to us it goes straight into

1328
01:22:01,533 --> 01:22:06,163
the account for podcastindex.org and obviously there's a lot going

1329
01:22:06,163 --> 01:22:09,013
on a lot of machines. Mindy needs to be fed,

1330
01:22:09,013 --> 01:22:13,273
so please, you know, support us. Podcastindex.org at the bottom

1331
01:22:13,273 --> 01:22:16,243
there is a big red donate button. You can support

1332
01:22:16,243 --> 01:22:18,863
us with PayPal. We also got some boosts coming in.

1333
01:22:18,863 --> 01:22:22,503
Actually, we got a lightning invoice payment. I'm not quite

1334
01:22:22,503 --> 01:22:25,843
sure where that came from. 100 sats just came in.

1335
01:22:26,383 --> 01:22:28,303
So I don't know who it's from, but it says,

1336
01:22:28,463 --> 01:22:33,123
good show today. I see it, yeah. Martin Lindeskirk, 1701.

1337
01:22:33,543 --> 01:22:36,513
There it is. He says... And he comes in for

1338
01:22:36,513 --> 01:22:39,983
true fans, as he always does. Fascinating conversation in cyberspace.

1339
01:22:40,083 --> 01:22:43,873
Adam, Dave, Sam, go podcasting. More power to Moe, CTO,

1340
01:22:43,873 --> 01:22:48,683
KYD. Fascinating. And he also sent another 1111 with a

1341
01:22:48,683 --> 01:22:53,173
cheers to Sam's Wine Business. Indeed. Dreb Scott, 1234, coming

1342
01:22:53,173 --> 01:22:56,163
in from Castomatic. I'm here. I'm here. Stuck in our

1343
01:22:56,163 --> 01:23:00,483
on-prem data center tracking down fiber or SFP issue for

1344
01:23:00,483 --> 01:23:04,163
some new servers. Yikes. Yeah. And I hit the delimiter.

1345
01:23:04,403 --> 01:23:07,643
So, Dave, you are up with your spiffy news. new

1346
01:23:07,643 --> 01:23:12,553
poll? Oh, Randall Black, $5. These are PayPal, so we

1347
01:23:12,553 --> 01:23:17,803
got $5 from him. We got John Hind, $12.79. I

1348
01:23:17,803 --> 01:23:21,393
think John had an... He had a message. Why did

1349
01:23:21,393 --> 01:23:23,743
it not come through? It was Eric PP who sent

1350
01:23:23,743 --> 01:23:28,063
the lightning invoice from Boost Me Bitch. So, okay. Thank

1351
01:23:28,063 --> 01:23:31,273
you, Eric PP. Oh, thank you. Man, I cannot find

1352
01:23:31,273 --> 01:23:34,483
his note. I'll have to find it after the fact.

1353
01:23:34,703 --> 01:23:38,223
James Sullivan, $10. Thank you. Thank you, James. Cohen Glotzbach,

1354
01:23:38,223 --> 01:23:44,773
$5. Christopher Reamer, $10. Uh, Jorge Hernandez, $5. Michael Goggin,

1355
01:23:44,773 --> 01:23:49,623
$5. And the boys and girls at Buzzsprout, $1,000. Yo!

1356
01:23:49,983 --> 01:23:54,203
Shot collar, 20-inch blades on the Impala. They are a

1357
01:23:54,203 --> 01:23:58,423
great bunch of guys. They support a lot in podcasting.

1358
01:23:58,483 --> 01:24:02,283
Thank you so much. We really appreciate it. Let's see.

1359
01:24:02,283 --> 01:24:07,643
I think I got John's note here. Yeah, you. Oh,

1360
01:24:07,643 --> 01:24:11,703
yeah. He says you accompany me while whilst marshalling the

1361
01:24:11,703 --> 01:24:16,183
park run on Saturday mornings, nine o'clock UK time. Yes,

1362
01:24:16,183 --> 01:24:18,003
I don't know what the park run is, but it's

1363
01:24:18,003 --> 01:24:20,543
a run in the park morning. Yeah, it's a run

1364
01:24:20,543 --> 01:24:25,953
in the park. Let's see, Dreb Scott, 716 sets. He

1365
01:24:25,953 --> 01:24:29,283
says, bat signal received. Sorry for all the truck talk

1366
01:24:29,283 --> 01:24:33,563
last week. I was successful in getting the alternator replaced

1367
01:24:33,563 --> 01:24:39,783
last Friday. Very good. Anonymous 578. We got a few

1368
01:24:39,783 --> 01:24:43,063
anonymous of various amounts. 920, 189. Quite a few of

1369
01:24:43,063 --> 01:24:48,303
those. We got a fountain user. Another anonymous. 6691. Thank

1370
01:24:48,303 --> 01:24:53,943
you user 9401. Blah blah blah. Uh... Let's see, read

1371
01:24:53,943 --> 01:24:58,463
BTC at Fountain1176. As building a community around a podcast

1372
01:24:58,463 --> 01:25:01,683
is the best way to add value for everyone. Noster

1373
01:25:01,683 --> 01:25:03,903
as an identity and messaging layer is a perfect fit

1374
01:25:03,903 --> 01:25:09,473
for podcast communities. Find your community at onlyboosts.social. I get

1375
01:25:09,473 --> 01:25:14,243
boost whenever there's a boost nearby. Yeah. Only Boosts. This

1376
01:25:14,243 --> 01:25:20,153
sounds like an OnlyFans competition. OnlyBoost.social. Interesting. I have to

1377
01:25:20,153 --> 01:25:22,093
tell you, most people in my village think I run

1378
01:25:22,093 --> 01:25:25,523
OnlyFans. Oh, you run everything else. Why would you not?

1379
01:25:25,563 --> 01:25:28,903
There's that guy. He's loaded. He runs OnlyFans. That guy.

1380
01:25:28,903 --> 01:25:32,583
Yeah. As you cruise by in the Ferrari. He's like,

1381
01:25:32,583 --> 01:25:34,573
what does he – what does Sam even do? Does

1382
01:25:34,573 --> 01:25:40,513
anybody know? Love down Babylon at Fountain. One, two, three,

1383
01:25:40,513 --> 01:25:44,553
four. Is there something self-hostable as a value split destination

1384
01:25:44,553 --> 01:25:47,943
in my podcast feed that could automatically split again to

1385
01:25:47,943 --> 01:25:52,173
multiple wallets? Like a wallet switch where a band subsplits

1386
01:25:52,173 --> 01:25:54,773
what others split to them but for a changing list

1387
01:25:54,773 --> 01:26:01,783
of charities. Thanks. I think that's a combination of BoostMeBitch.com

1388
01:26:01,783 --> 01:26:07,113
and the TARD box. That's the thing. That is a

1389
01:26:07,113 --> 01:26:10,863
sentence that I never expected to hear in my life.

1390
01:26:11,583 --> 01:26:14,463
It is a combination of Boost Me Bitch and Tart

1391
01:26:14,463 --> 01:26:18,083
Box. You know, Chad F., he's vibe coding a lot

1392
01:26:18,083 --> 01:26:22,913
of cool stuff, but the commercial value of his stuff

1393
01:26:22,913 --> 01:26:25,813
– You know, the marketing is a little askew. I

1394
01:26:25,813 --> 01:26:28,333
think it's hilarious. I love it. But I can just

1395
01:26:28,333 --> 01:26:31,293
see, you know, hey, Pastor Jimmy, I just want everyone

1396
01:26:31,293 --> 01:26:34,613
to go to boostmebitch.com. That's not going to work. That's

1397
01:26:34,613 --> 01:26:36,653
going to be a bit of an issue. We need

1398
01:26:36,653 --> 01:26:39,263
some different marketing there, Chad F. That's where you say

1399
01:26:39,263 --> 01:26:42,803
boost me, buddy. Boost me, buddy. Boost me, buddy. Yeah.

1400
01:26:43,483 --> 01:26:48,423
uh anonymous fountain user 2007 sats thank you anonymous user

1401
01:26:48,423 --> 01:26:51,273
uh we got comic strip blogger 10 000 sats there

1402
01:26:51,273 --> 01:26:53,393
he is and uh yes 10 000 i thought it

1403
01:26:53,393 --> 01:26:57,333
was oh that's interesting your numbers must be off because

1404
01:26:57,333 --> 01:27:00,033
i i see that's the part that went to us

1405
01:27:00,033 --> 01:27:04,873
right but the total number is 18. Mm-hmm. We got

1406
01:27:04,873 --> 01:27:08,973
10, though, to the podcast index. Right, but don't you

1407
01:27:08,973 --> 01:27:11,393
want to give them the – Well, I don't see

1408
01:27:11,393 --> 01:27:17,383
it. It's not in my export. Okay, all right. You

1409
01:27:17,383 --> 01:27:20,163
tell me what the – what is the total? 18,000

1410
01:27:20,163 --> 01:27:23,763
zats. Okay, we get, okay, 18,000 sets through Comicster Blogger.

1411
01:27:23,763 --> 01:27:26,983
And I say this because otherwise you know that he'll

1412
01:27:26,983 --> 01:27:30,423
never give up on us. I gave you 18. By

1413
01:27:30,423 --> 01:27:33,593
the way, what I really loved this past week and

1414
01:27:33,593 --> 01:27:37,373
a half, Comicster, something was up with Comicster Blogger, and

1415
01:27:37,373 --> 01:27:40,723
he posted something. And it was beautiful to see our

1416
01:27:40,723 --> 01:27:43,503
community say, hey, man, are you okay? Is everything? I

1417
01:27:43,503 --> 01:27:47,163
texted him. I said, you know, everything okay? He's like,

1418
01:27:47,163 --> 01:27:49,633
no. Like, well, let me know what I can do

1419
01:27:49,633 --> 01:27:53,433
to help. But I just love seeing everybody who –

1420
01:27:53,433 --> 01:27:55,683
everyone's had an issue with comics or blogger at some

1421
01:27:55,683 --> 01:27:59,373
point. But it was really nice to see. Everyone's like,

1422
01:27:59,373 --> 01:28:01,533
hey, bro, you okay? What's going on? That was just

1423
01:28:01,533 --> 01:28:04,273
beautiful to see. And comics or blogger, if there's anything

1424
01:28:04,273 --> 01:28:08,433
we can do, let us know. Howdy, Damon, Adam. Today,

1425
01:28:08,433 --> 01:28:14,053
I recommend not a podcast, but YouTube channel. YouTube.com slash

1426
01:28:14,053 --> 01:28:20,033
at puppet, E-D-G-A-R. Puppet Edgar. Puppet Edgar. So, Puppet Edgar,

1427
01:28:20,033 --> 01:28:24,213
who is a blue puppet akin to Triumph Insult Comic

1428
01:28:24,213 --> 01:28:28,383
Dog, but is operated by no agenda fan. Yo, CSB,

1429
01:28:28,383 --> 01:28:33,633
still stonewalled by Adam Curry. This gram was $15.10 when

1430
01:28:33,633 --> 01:28:37,443
sent. I wonder if it's my stonewalling that is making

1431
01:28:37,443 --> 01:28:40,463
him feel so down. I hope not. You're going to

1432
01:28:40,463 --> 01:28:45,303
have to solve this problem. Yeah. It's now firmly in

1433
01:28:45,303 --> 01:28:48,523
your camp. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to solve this. I've

1434
01:28:48,523 --> 01:28:51,643
got to solve this. My life is a mess. It's

1435
01:28:51,643 --> 01:28:56,443
all right. Yep. Yeah. Okay. Was that it? That's it.

1436
01:28:56,763 --> 01:29:00,803
That's it. That's it. There's nothing else. There's nothing. It's

1437
01:29:00,803 --> 01:29:04,633
the end of the road. We've reached the end. Sam,

1438
01:29:04,633 --> 01:29:08,303
is there anything else we can do for you? Can

1439
01:29:08,303 --> 01:29:11,413
we help besides the things we already discussed? Anything else

1440
01:29:11,413 --> 01:29:14,123
you want to close out with? No, no. I mean,

1441
01:29:14,123 --> 01:29:18,003
look, you know, it's cool. I think... We've, what, what,

1442
01:29:18,003 --> 01:29:19,913
is it five years, six years now we've been on

1443
01:29:19,913 --> 01:29:22,803
this journey? Yeah, six. Yeah, I mean, you know, and

1444
01:29:22,803 --> 01:29:26,213
we are moving the needle forward now. It's cool. I

1445
01:29:26,213 --> 01:29:28,483
love it. That's why. The needle just does not, it

1446
01:29:28,483 --> 01:29:31,653
just does not move very fast. It's a needle. No,

1447
01:29:31,653 --> 01:29:35,343
but if you look back. Over the time, it's really

1448
01:29:35,343 --> 01:29:38,933
funny, the arrow of time moves forward slowly, but when

1449
01:29:38,933 --> 01:29:42,173
you look back, it's moved really quickly. You know... You

1450
01:29:42,173 --> 01:29:45,153
see things, you go, "Wow, we came up with that

1451
01:29:45,153 --> 01:29:48,123
crazy idea," or let's say Ukraine came up with a

1452
01:29:48,123 --> 01:29:52,083
crazy idea, and it's implemented, and then suddenly it's adopted

1453
01:29:52,083 --> 01:29:55,863
by the big players and suddenly it's everywhere. Transcripts, chapters,

1454
01:29:55,863 --> 01:29:58,893
person tag. It's great. And I think the thing that's

1455
01:29:58,893 --> 01:29:59,923
often missed is that it is

1456
01:30:00,019 --> 01:30:04,239
The board meeting that keeps it all together. You know,

1457
01:30:04,239 --> 01:30:07,499
every open source project should be doing some kind of

1458
01:30:07,499 --> 01:30:10,479
podcast, some kind of board meeting. The idea of doing

1459
01:30:10,479 --> 01:30:13,329
it live with a boardroom and people chiming in and

1460
01:30:13,329 --> 01:30:16,179
we have fun. You know, we're goofing off this. You

1461
01:30:16,179 --> 01:30:18,519
know, no one's a no one's the police officer of

1462
01:30:18,519 --> 01:30:22,479
anything. Yeah. It is such a beautiful example of what

1463
01:30:22,479 --> 01:30:25,999
podcasting can do. And Tina asked me the other day,

1464
01:30:25,999 --> 01:30:28,269
she says, so why do you do this podcasting 2.0

1465
01:30:28,269 --> 01:30:32,489
podcast? So, well, one – Otherwise, I'd never catch up

1466
01:30:32,489 --> 01:30:34,769
with Dave. I just want to talk to my buddy

1467
01:30:34,769 --> 01:30:37,279
Dave. I'd be lonely on a Friday night as well.

1468
01:30:37,459 --> 01:30:39,779
Yeah, we don't want Sam to be lonely. We want

1469
01:30:39,779 --> 01:30:43,099
a commentary blogger to have something to do. But it's

1470
01:30:43,099 --> 01:30:46,169
also, it's in our DNA. It's in our DNA. It's

1471
01:30:46,169 --> 01:30:48,689
in our DNA. It's who we are. It's a part

1472
01:30:48,689 --> 01:30:50,519
of who we are. And I just love that this

1473
01:30:50,519 --> 01:30:54,339
community has grown and that people continue to contribute. And

1474
01:30:54,339 --> 01:30:57,819
it's a beautiful thing. It's a very beautiful thing. Sam,

1475
01:30:57,819 --> 01:31:01,279
thank you so much, brother. Dave, thank you. Everybody have

1476
01:31:01,279 --> 01:31:04,469
a great weekend. And we will return next Friday for

1477
01:31:04,469 --> 01:31:08,319
another Board Beating of Podcasting 2.0. I hope you will

1478
01:31:08,319 --> 01:31:11,259
join us. Somebody bring the donuts. We'll see you then.

1479
01:31:11,259 --> 01:31:28,329
We'll see you then. Thank you. Thank you. You have

1480
01:31:28,329 --> 01:31:35,579
been listening to Podcasting 2.0. Visit podcastindex.org for more information.

1481
01:31:36,059 --> 01:31:40,559
Go podcasting! It's an impersonation and escalation.