1 00:00:00,719 --> 00:00:06,389 podcasting 2.0 for December 24 2021, episode 67 Satoshi 2 00:00:06,389 --> 00:00:11,999 stocking stuffer everybody there you go. The last meeting of the 3 00:00:11,999 --> 00:00:14,639 Board of Directors I think is the last one we're almost at the 4 00:00:14,639 --> 00:00:19,349 end of the year just before Christmas time to figure out 5 00:00:19,349 --> 00:00:22,079 what's going on and what has been going on and podcast 6 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:25,619 index.org with the podcast namespace and of course, the 7 00:00:25,619 --> 00:00:29,729 lovely community at podcast index dot social I'm Adam curry 8 00:00:29,729 --> 00:00:32,969 here in the heart of Texas Texas Hill Country and in Alabama. The 9 00:00:32,969 --> 00:00:35,969 man who actually knows who's been naughty or nice my friend 10 00:00:35,969 --> 00:00:37,979 on the other end ladies and gentlemen, please say hello to 11 00:00:37,979 --> 00:00:39,479 Mr. Dave Jones. 12 00:00:40,349 --> 00:00:46,439 There's no good numerology for episode 6767 is the most boring 13 00:00:47,339 --> 00:00:50,579 number it's that's always like the white guy on the basketball 14 00:00:50,579 --> 00:00:50,939 team. 15 00:00:51,389 --> 00:00:52,109 He's number six 16 00:00:54,630 --> 00:00:58,500 Yeah, I think he's always 67 It's weird. You get I'm all over 17 00:00:58,500 --> 00:01:01,470 the place here that it's like it's not a typical board meeting 18 00:01:01,470 --> 00:01:06,360 because it's not actually Friday The Night Before Christmas. 19 00:01:06,750 --> 00:01:09,450 This is started the show upside down. Well, we did. 20 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:17,790 We did. Although luckily we have the typical hokey radio guy 21 00:01:17,790 --> 00:01:24,210 sound effects for a for a Christmas episode. And we're 22 00:01:24,210 --> 00:01:29,040 doing this today with our guest in Australia. Mr. James Cridland 23 00:01:29,730 --> 00:01:33,420 greetings strike it's beyond I I'm a big fan of the sleigh 24 00:01:33,420 --> 00:01:33,690 bells. 25 00:01:33,750 --> 00:01:37,350 Oh well good because I also if James was can you just sit in 26 00:01:37,350 --> 00:01:40,440 the corner here in this once you get the the Chesterfield? There. 27 00:01:40,470 --> 00:01:44,130 You got that one? Because that's a little closer to the fire 28 00:01:44,340 --> 00:01:46,890 here. Oh, yeah. Yes. Nice. 29 00:01:48,390 --> 00:01:52,320 Oh, all we need now is a phone in with Santa. 30 00:01:55,710 --> 00:02:01,560 Oh, exactly. Yes, that's right. I see. James is an old radio 31 00:02:01,590 --> 00:02:04,680 dude like myself. So I know he appreciates these kinds of hokey 32 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:05,220 things. 33 00:02:05,790 --> 00:02:10,080 Yeah, I've just got to find an old radio dude. Like yourself. 34 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:16,650 Did they? Did they have in the UK? Did they have the? We're 35 00:02:16,650 --> 00:02:20,940 tracking Santa on radar is one and already have that NORAD? 36 00:02:21,330 --> 00:02:25,230 Yeah, there was there was a time when I think the RAF was doing 37 00:02:25,230 --> 00:02:28,140 something and yeah, right. Everybody found Google and they 38 00:02:28,140 --> 00:02:33,390 found no right. And what does NORAD stand for? The 39 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:39,930 Russians? Russia defense? Yeah, yeah. No. So 40 00:02:39,930 --> 00:02:42,240 we do we yeah, we didn't do any of that. And of course, of 41 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,570 course, here in Australia, it's, you know, it's, I mean, 42 00:02:45,570 --> 00:02:49,200 obviously, already now. It's tomorrow. Yeah. And that's 43 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:51,420 why we're pre taping this because we realize that there's 44 00:02:51,420 --> 00:02:54,270 no way we can we can do it on Friday at our regular time, it 45 00:02:54,270 --> 00:02:59,250 would be practically new years where you are so yeah, how old 46 00:02:59,250 --> 00:03:02,160 are those jokes get after? Why are you so tired of them? We 47 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:04,320 just put up with them from people making the fucking 48 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:05,670 timezone joke. 49 00:03:06,090 --> 00:03:09,660 Oh, yeah. And then this the then this the upside down joke, 50 00:03:09,690 --> 00:03:12,330 which Dave started with Dave started that. Yeah, that was 51 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,530 the only Australian joke I know. Now I've got another one. It's 52 00:03:16,530 --> 00:03:18,510 the everything can kill you joke. I mean, this, 53 00:03:19,530 --> 00:03:23,340 which is absolutely true, which is very true. Oh, my goodness. I 54 00:03:23,340 --> 00:03:26,250 have a question though. Before we get into what we're going to 55 00:03:26,250 --> 00:03:29,850 do at the board meeting today, I lived in Los Angeles for better 56 00:03:29,850 --> 00:03:34,380 living in San Francisco. And I had business in London, in the 57 00:03:34,380 --> 00:03:39,150 Netherlands and in the United States. And it was so different 58 00:03:39,630 --> 00:03:42,840 from anything I've ever experienced as it comes to 59 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:47,970 timing. So you're working there. Some people are three hours 60 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:52,410 later than you some are up to nine hours later, I've had the 61 00:03:52,410 --> 00:03:56,520 reverse where I was in London and was dealing with San 62 00:03:56,520 --> 00:04:01,830 Francisco. How does that affect your life? With what you do 63 00:04:01,830 --> 00:04:06,360 getting a newsletter out daily producing, you know, the daily, 64 00:04:06,420 --> 00:04:09,000 the daily podcast? I mean, does it fit in perfectly with a 65 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,600 normal schedule? Do you feel like you're living in two 66 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:16,140 different worlds? One is the kind of the the civilized 67 00:04:16,140 --> 00:04:20,460 Western, sorry, kind of the West, you know where we are? 68 00:04:20,670 --> 00:04:23,310 What Where's Yeah, where the innovation and business and 69 00:04:23,310 --> 00:04:27,240 excitement is? And then you I can't help myself, I think but 70 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:27,840 you know what I'm saying? 71 00:04:28,529 --> 00:04:30,299 I think you'll find the innovation and excitement is 72 00:04:30,299 --> 00:04:32,669 here. We invented Wi Fi so 73 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:37,230 this was not parrot systems was not the company it 74 00:04:37,230 --> 00:04:40,980 was. It was an Australian company. Invented Wi Fi today. 75 00:04:40,980 --> 00:04:44,490 There you go. Quick, quick. Wikipedia check. I remember I 76 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:49,380 invented Google Maps. So yeah, so if you're if you're a fan of 77 00:04:49,380 --> 00:04:52,230 Google Maps, then that's also why I'm saying we 78 00:04:54,269 --> 00:04:56,099 keyhole came from Australia. 79 00:04:57,060 --> 00:05:03,690 Yeah, they they're the Google Maps came from Yeah, it was it 80 00:05:03,690 --> 00:05:04,710 was a Sydney thing. 81 00:05:05,670 --> 00:05:08,550 Really. So just a bunch of spooks there. Man, that whole 82 00:05:08,550 --> 00:05:12,390 keyhole thing was a CIA operation. You guys did five 83 00:05:12,390 --> 00:05:12,720 eyes 84 00:05:13,529 --> 00:05:16,889 doesn't mean, five. 85 00:05:18,029 --> 00:05:22,589 But yes, no, where were you going? Oh, yes. So, time zones 86 00:05:22,589 --> 00:05:26,159 and things. It's really good if you're writing a newsletter, 87 00:05:26,159 --> 00:05:28,649 like the pod news newsletter, which is free pot news, 88 00:05:28,649 --> 00:05:32,339 donations, right? It's really, really good. Because it means 89 00:05:32,339 --> 00:05:36,419 that nine o'clock at night, my time is six in the morning, the 90 00:05:36,419 --> 00:05:40,049 same day New York time. So that means that I've got all day to 91 00:05:40,049 --> 00:05:44,219 write something that you lot will will wake up to. Okay, so 92 00:05:44,219 --> 00:05:47,729 that's really nice. Yeah, so that is really, really helpful. 93 00:05:47,729 --> 00:05:50,549 What it's not helpful for is trying to talk to anybody. 94 00:05:51,629 --> 00:05:54,659 Because obviously, every everybody is either asleep, or 95 00:05:54,659 --> 00:05:57,389 they're, you know, come on, you know, I finished my working day. 96 00:05:57,629 --> 00:06:02,489 So that that gets very, very hard, which is why, you know, I 97 00:06:02,489 --> 00:06:06,629 used to try and always go to, you know, Podcast Movement, and, 98 00:06:07,139 --> 00:06:10,559 you know, pod fest, and all of these other big podcast 99 00:06:10,559 --> 00:06:13,859 conferences, so that I could actually talk to people and, you 100 00:06:13,859 --> 00:06:15,839 know, and meet people and everything else, because 101 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:20,309 otherwise, I could never do that in recent times. And so, as you 102 00:06:20,309 --> 00:06:22,259 can imagine, the last two years have been fun. 103 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:28,470 And just from living your life, day to day in, in Brisbane, and 104 00:06:28,470 --> 00:06:32,250 then made you feel like you're behind what's happening, or that 105 00:06:32,250 --> 00:06:34,800 you actually are ahead of what's happening. If you know what I 106 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,530 mean, just the new cycles of products. Yeah, 107 00:06:37,739 --> 00:06:41,249 the news cycle really confused me when I first moved here, 108 00:06:41,249 --> 00:06:43,469 because essentially, there's stuff that goes on during the 109 00:06:43,469 --> 00:06:46,919 day, which is all Australian, because you are all asleep. And 110 00:06:46,919 --> 00:06:50,969 then everything happens overnight. So you know, Europe 111 00:06:50,969 --> 00:06:54,059 wakes up and does its thing, the US wakes up and does its thing. 112 00:06:54,059 --> 00:06:57,479 So by the next morning, basically, it's a big dump of 113 00:06:57,479 --> 00:07:00,749 everything that happened overnight. And certainly for the 114 00:07:00,749 --> 00:07:03,689 last, you know, for the last four years in your country, 115 00:07:03,689 --> 00:07:08,009 there was an awful lot happening every single day. And so, so 116 00:07:08,009 --> 00:07:11,459 just sort of waking up to that blizzard of news about what's 117 00:07:11,459 --> 00:07:15,479 going on in Europe, what's going on in the US. Every morning was 118 00:07:15,479 --> 00:07:18,389 just really strange to me having, you know, obviously, 119 00:07:18,389 --> 00:07:19,409 growing up in the UK, 120 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:23,310 what's the first thing that you do? I mean, do you do when do 121 00:07:23,310 --> 00:07:25,650 you start to ingest the information at what point in 122 00:07:25,650 --> 00:07:27,150 your in your waking cycle? 123 00:07:28,500 --> 00:07:34,530 Oh, you know, I mean, I tend not to listen to too much news 124 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:38,040 media. I'll listen to the local public radio station. But 125 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:40,260 it's like when you get when you when you put your feet on the 126 00:07:40,260 --> 00:07:43,080 ground out of bed? Or do you look at your phone first? You 127 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:44,880 know, do you have breakfast first? 128 00:07:45,300 --> 00:07:48,840 Oh, so normally normally it's the Google speaker is waking me 129 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:50,700 up to some to some radio. 130 00:07:51,899 --> 00:07:54,929 Time to wake up it's hard to wake up this is your overlord 131 00:07:54,929 --> 00:07:55,559 from Google? 132 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:01,230 Well, actually, I've got her saying she says good morning to 133 00:08:01,230 --> 00:08:05,250 us and including the dog which is always important. And then 134 00:08:05,250 --> 00:08:08,190 she tells us what the temperature is going to be like 135 00:08:08,220 --> 00:08:11,460 you're living in a sci fi movie aren't you? Ours is great. 136 00:08:11,519 --> 00:08:14,879 And she tells us what we've got in our diaries and and then she 137 00:08:14,879 --> 00:08:19,439 starts playing it used to be that she would wake us up to the 138 00:08:19,469 --> 00:08:24,719 the ABC News for here and then the BBC News from back home. But 139 00:08:24,719 --> 00:08:27,749 that was that was insane. So I stopped I stopped ending up 140 00:08:27,749 --> 00:08:28,679 doing wow so 141 00:08:29,190 --> 00:08:31,050 like you had a great it looks like you had a great night's 142 00:08:31,050 --> 00:08:32,940 sleep last night you know much less than 143 00:08:33,870 --> 00:08:36,840 your heart rate was lower than normal. You had good resting 144 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:40,230 sleep you are ready I love human resource you are fit for the day 145 00:08:40,260 --> 00:08:41,160 human resource. 146 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:45,210 One of the one of the devices that I have does actually 147 00:08:45,210 --> 00:08:50,760 monitor you at while you're while you're in bed asleep from 148 00:08:51,270 --> 00:08:54,780 Google as you can and you can guess that I've not allowed that 149 00:08:54,780 --> 00:08:55,320 to happen. 150 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:02,910 Your your partner's very smart person. Yes. Very, very smart 151 00:09:02,910 --> 00:09:04,380 person not having that. 152 00:09:04,710 --> 00:09:08,640 James is looking for I'm looking for. There's this. We have these 153 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:14,520 printers at a job I had, like 25 years ago, humongous laser 154 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:20,130 printers. And it was a company called Anzac. Oh, yeah. And I'm 155 00:09:20,130 --> 00:09:23,160 thinking that they may have helped develop the laser pre 156 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:27,030 Australian company. And I'm thinking they may have actually 157 00:09:27,060 --> 00:09:30,510 helped develop the first laser printer. These things are 158 00:09:30,540 --> 00:09:35,700 ancient and yeah. So we, we had this I worked one of my first 159 00:09:35,700 --> 00:09:42,630 gigs was doing sis ops for sort of a for a big insurance 160 00:09:42,630 --> 00:09:47,550 company. And then we had as for hundreds connected to the Yeah, 161 00:09:47,550 --> 00:09:51,210 connected to the as 400 words. Were a bunch of ANZAC laser 162 00:09:51,210 --> 00:09:56,280 printers. And then also a bunch of those humongous green and 163 00:09:56,280 --> 00:10:00,780 white striped tractor feed printers. Not not Small ones, 164 00:10:00,810 --> 00:10:05,040 you know, but the ones that are like, What 20 inches wide, the 165 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:10,980 paper was. So you would, and nobody, nobody younger than, you 166 00:10:10,980 --> 00:10:14,850 know, 40 understands it didn't see anything like this, you, you 167 00:10:14,850 --> 00:10:16,980 have this huge thing. I mean, there's big as you know, a 168 00:10:16,980 --> 00:10:23,100 person he lit in, you take like a 2000 reams stack of pages off 169 00:10:23,100 --> 00:10:25,890 of this thing, and it has the tractor feed on the side. But 170 00:10:25,890 --> 00:10:30,600 the but the tractor feed is not like perforated. It's, it's just 171 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,590 solid, it's a solid shadow, you don't you don't tear it off. So 172 00:10:34,590 --> 00:10:38,370 you had to take it over to this machine called a burster. And 173 00:10:38,370 --> 00:10:42,270 the burster would cut the tractor feed off the side off of 174 00:10:42,270 --> 00:10:45,270 both sides of this thing. And it was basically this huge thing 175 00:10:45,270 --> 00:10:49,470 about the size of sounds like a guillotine. It was like half the 176 00:10:49,470 --> 00:10:53,640 size of a pool table. And you stick you stick your stack of 177 00:10:53,940 --> 00:10:57,990 tractor feed your huge thing of tractor feature, you load the 178 00:10:57,990 --> 00:11:01,530 first thing in, you know, and it's going to suck this page in 179 00:11:01,530 --> 00:11:04,800 at like it's going to pull the whole stack through and cut it 180 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:08,610 off. And so there's these huge blades on the left and the 181 00:11:08,610 --> 00:11:12,570 right, that look like pizza cutters. And then so you lined 182 00:11:12,570 --> 00:11:17,670 it up, and you start, he starts the thing rolling in, it goes 183 00:11:17,670 --> 00:11:21,420 real slow. And then you let you make sure everything's situated 184 00:11:21,420 --> 00:11:25,170 and everything's going right and it's running around, you know, I 185 00:11:25,170 --> 00:11:29,100 don't know, one mile an hour, it's going like one mile an 186 00:11:29,100 --> 00:11:33,030 hour, and then you so then you slowly raise the speed and you 187 00:11:33,030 --> 00:11:36,540 get it going faster and faster and faster. And the fun thing 188 00:11:36,540 --> 00:11:41,640 about it was that you would get to the certain point. And it was 189 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:46,140 the happy zone. And so then it's it's chugging along, but new 190 00:11:46,140 --> 00:11:48,390 people, they would always cut it they would start to feel a 191 00:11:48,390 --> 00:11:50,760 little too comfortable. And they cut it up too high. They go like 192 00:11:50,970 --> 00:11:55,020 one mile an hour to how and this thing. And it was start flying. 193 00:11:55,050 --> 00:11:59,670 And then it would just go slow and paper everywhere. I mean, 194 00:11:59,670 --> 00:12:02,100 just fly you know all over the place. And you would It would 195 00:12:02,100 --> 00:12:06,210 ruin every all 2000 pages this thing in so fast, you couldn't 196 00:12:06,210 --> 00:12:09,420 even blink. So you'd have to pull print the whole thing out 197 00:12:09,420 --> 00:12:09,720 again. 198 00:12:09,929 --> 00:12:12,059 And that was what 20 years ago, maybe 199 00:12:12,270 --> 00:12:17,970 3020 24 years ago, something like that. Did 2425 years ago, 200 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:22,680 IBM as 400 was my client, we built their website. Really? 201 00:12:22,710 --> 00:12:27,810 Yeah. And guess guess what they insisted. But that it run on an 202 00:12:27,810 --> 00:12:30,600 eight that the website run on an A S 400. 203 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:33,930 Oh my god. Oh, wow. Good luck with that. 204 00:12:33,929 --> 00:12:36,689 That was hilarious. I think we ultimately said Look, you guys 205 00:12:36,689 --> 00:12:40,649 bought Lotus Notes. Why don't we just do that? Okay, it's just 206 00:12:40,649 --> 00:12:45,389 much easier. It's one of your products. GE Yes. Wow, way. 207 00:12:45,479 --> 00:12:50,699 Gosh. So James, before we get into all of the year, which is 208 00:12:50,699 --> 00:12:53,579 why I think we know at least this is what Dave sold to me. 209 00:12:53,579 --> 00:12:56,339 Yeah, we're gonna do a look back at No, he said to be specific. 210 00:12:56,789 --> 00:13:01,739 James will do a look back at the year for us. Yeah, yeah. Right. 211 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:06,540 And I asked Dave, do I need to do any prep? And Dave said, Nah, 212 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:07,170 no, no, 213 00:13:07,170 --> 00:13:11,940 we'll just wing it. Exactly. I think congratulations are in 214 00:13:11,940 --> 00:13:15,210 order. I know you are an advisor to captivate. I heard you say 215 00:13:15,210 --> 00:13:20,340 this morning that you were an advisor. I was but did you have 216 00:13:20,340 --> 00:13:22,620 anything to do with the deal? Because it sure feels like it. 217 00:13:22,950 --> 00:13:26,880 I wasn't advisor until the the exact time that the deal went 218 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:27,240 through. 219 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:32,370 Congratulations. Excellent. So beers on James Nice. 220 00:13:33,540 --> 00:13:37,020 So Captivate has been bought by a global, which is Europe's 221 00:13:37,020 --> 00:13:42,750 largest Radio Group. But it also runs DAX, which is a ad 222 00:13:42,750 --> 00:13:49,050 insertion service in the US and also, by the way, runs the the 223 00:13:49,050 --> 00:13:53,220 big poster sites in the tube in London, and, you know, on the 224 00:13:53,220 --> 00:13:56,580 side of streets and things like that they basically run those, 225 00:13:56,670 --> 00:14:00,090 what do you mean, they're run a little company? Where they they 226 00:14:00,090 --> 00:14:03,870 own them? So I know, okay, the big poster, what 227 00:14:03,870 --> 00:14:06,870 was it? What was the they decided to go ahead? 228 00:14:07,020 --> 00:14:12,120 They decided one year to to get into outdoor advertising. And so 229 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:15,510 they bought the number one outdoor company and then they 230 00:14:15,510 --> 00:14:18,900 bought the number two outdoor company as well. Wow, just you 231 00:14:18,900 --> 00:14:20,730 know, because because, you know, why not? You're 232 00:14:20,730 --> 00:14:23,220 not allowed to do that in America. In America, we put a 233 00:14:23,220 --> 00:14:28,530 stop to that. Competitive Hey, what do you think was a creative 234 00:14:28,530 --> 00:14:33,150 to them for the purchase? Captivate what was what how does 235 00:14:33,150 --> 00:14:34,830 it fit in their overall strategy, 236 00:14:35,790 --> 00:14:38,760 but I think it fits into their overall strategy because, you 237 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,850 know, global at the moment are you know, they're very good at 238 00:14:41,850 --> 00:14:46,140 getting, you know, big names, big talent, and, you know, and 239 00:14:46,140 --> 00:14:50,010 all that kind of stuff for their podcasts, but they don't own a 240 00:14:50,010 --> 00:14:55,830 podcast host for themselves. So if they wanted to emulate what a 241 00:14:55,830 --> 00:14:59,970 caste, for example has been doing, or to a degree, what has 242 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,630 Spotify has been doing in getting in allowing anyone who 243 00:15:03,630 --> 00:15:08,700 wants to podcast giving them a platform and selling ads in 244 00:15:08,700 --> 00:15:14,130 those shows, then that's something that, you know, global 245 00:15:14,130 --> 00:15:16,980 couldn't do because they didn't own a podcast host. Now who 246 00:15:16,980 --> 00:15:17,910 wants I think it's inch 247 00:15:17,969 --> 00:15:21,119 who owns DAX, who has the the ad insertion technology. 248 00:15:21,719 --> 00:15:26,579 So DAX is owned by a bi global so that that, that that I think, 249 00:15:26,579 --> 00:15:28,919 is the exciting thing that they've basically gone. Right. 250 00:15:28,949 --> 00:15:32,969 You know, we we want to be in podcasting properly. You know, 251 00:15:32,969 --> 00:15:36,239 as my, is my understanding, and you know, and this is going to 252 00:15:36,239 --> 00:15:40,079 be one of the things that they end up doing, to actually have 253 00:15:40,079 --> 00:15:43,949 their own podcast host. So, you know, it's interesting when you 254 00:15:43,949 --> 00:15:51,599 have a look at Sirius XM bought simple cost. I have Omni studio. 255 00:15:52,769 --> 00:15:57,329 Listen still. Oh, is it right? Yeah. Libsyn is still is still 256 00:15:57,329 --> 00:16:01,889 independent in terms of a large media company. But you can fit, 257 00:16:01,889 --> 00:16:04,469 you can clearly see that there are large media companies 258 00:16:04,679 --> 00:16:07,649 basically buying up as many podcast hosts as they can. 259 00:16:07,770 --> 00:16:12,150 So here's what I'm seeing. I'm seeing the strategies vary from 260 00:16:12,150 --> 00:16:16,320 company to company, but it looks like radio has woken up. They're 261 00:16:16,350 --> 00:16:20,430 about 15 years. on the late side, I would say they've woken 262 00:16:20,430 --> 00:16:23,370 up. They're saying, Okay, we're not going to take it laying 263 00:16:23,370 --> 00:16:25,830 down. I think it's very similar to what we're seeing in the 264 00:16:25,830 --> 00:16:30,630 United States with television news. Fox News started by 265 00:16:30,660 --> 00:16:37,020 creating Fox nation. And CNN is now starting CNN plus, it's what 266 00:16:37,020 --> 00:16:40,650 the studios have done with the streamers. So it's so the 267 00:16:40,650 --> 00:16:44,310 tradition, it's really about the the cost and the art and the 268 00:16:44,310 --> 00:16:48,570 opportunity, I guess, for the reach that you can achieve with 269 00:16:49,230 --> 00:16:55,230 with podcasts and with online. It's a trend now it's a trend 270 00:16:55,230 --> 00:16:58,530 radio is striking back now. Would you say? 271 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,320 I think it's I think it is absolutely that. But I think it 272 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:06,090 is also just looking at the consumption. Radio is very much 273 00:17:06,090 --> 00:17:10,050 an old thing. And so radio is being propped up by people who 274 00:17:10,050 --> 00:17:14,490 are 45 plus 55. Plus, when you start having a look at younger 275 00:17:14,490 --> 00:17:18,390 audiences, they are listening to far more stuff on demand. Right. 276 00:17:18,450 --> 00:17:21,240 So whether that's music on demand, or whether that's 277 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:23,850 speech, talk on demand. Now 278 00:17:23,850 --> 00:17:28,050 a question for you, do you think? Because this is critical, 279 00:17:28,050 --> 00:17:30,900 this is a point I tried to make the other day to Todd and Rob. 280 00:17:31,530 --> 00:17:36,150 See, looking at the trend of young people that trend is on 281 00:17:36,150 --> 00:17:41,460 demand, no advertising, it can be free. I know I'm giving up my 282 00:17:41,490 --> 00:17:44,970 my left nut for that Google YouTube, whatever. But the 283 00:17:44,970 --> 00:17:49,050 concept of advertising I feel in traditional sense. And I'll just 284 00:17:49,050 --> 00:17:53,220 say the interruptive advertising model. That's not the same as 285 00:17:53,220 --> 00:17:56,880 host reads or annual, many other forms that that it can and I 286 00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:00,480 hopefully new forms that can come this is what I hoped was 287 00:18:00,510 --> 00:18:05,850 odd show 20 years ago. Do I see this to be a danger in the 288 00:18:06,030 --> 00:18:09,870 direction that podcasting is commercialized? Podcasting is 289 00:18:09,870 --> 00:18:14,130 heading where people are so focused on the ads, but it's the 290 00:18:14,130 --> 00:18:17,370 need to change the nature of them. It seems like the audience 291 00:18:17,370 --> 00:18:20,160 is not digging that. And they just fast forward through the 292 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:21,210 many way if they can. 293 00:18:22,530 --> 00:18:26,190 Yeah, I think there's some evidence around people fast 294 00:18:26,190 --> 00:18:29,490 forwarding some people fast forwarding through ads, although 295 00:18:29,490 --> 00:18:32,880 I think the majority of people still still don't, but at the 296 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,300 end of the day, yeah, you know, I don't think that radio ads 297 00:18:36,300 --> 00:18:41,730 work very well on podcasts. And, you know, if all of a sudden I 298 00:18:41,730 --> 00:18:46,380 mean, you know, I was listening to a, a true crime podcast a 299 00:18:46,380 --> 00:18:49,800 month or so ago, and it was a beautifully produced podcast, 300 00:18:49,830 --> 00:18:52,050 and you know, the sound direction was excellent and 301 00:18:52,050 --> 00:18:53,970 blah, blah, blah, and then all of a sudden, it stopped for an 302 00:18:53,970 --> 00:18:58,320 ad break. And there was this crazy guy talking about good 303 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,590 buying, you know, whatever it was, you know, mattress or 304 00:19:01,590 --> 00:19:07,080 something else programmatic. Just completely, you know, 305 00:19:07,230 --> 00:19:07,560 that's, 306 00:19:08,310 --> 00:19:13,260 that's us, James. We are in the in the 40 to 50 year old range 307 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:17,760 is today's millennial and forget to Zoomers, they have no 308 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:20,820 interest in listening to ADS, they just run away from just 309 00:19:20,820 --> 00:19:23,400 saying I think that's a problem. We need to address that with the 310 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,980 industry. I don't but the industry needs to address it. 311 00:19:27,270 --> 00:19:29,640 Yeah, I would agree. And I think you know, we we've certainly 312 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:33,150 seen an awful lot more, you know, influencers and, and, you 313 00:19:33,150 --> 00:19:37,380 know, those sorts of ways of getting closer to a, you know, 314 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,910 getting closer to a brand. And you know, a 32nd ad or somebody 315 00:19:41,910 --> 00:19:44,670 shouting at you with a funny voice is not necessarily going 316 00:19:44,670 --> 00:19:46,020 to work too. Well. I don't for 317 00:19:46,050 --> 00:19:49,710 let me let me let me ask you this though. It so and this is 318 00:19:49,710 --> 00:19:52,170 something I've been confused about forever. And I've heard 319 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,200 I've heard people try to explain it but it still doesn't make 320 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,980 sense to me. Is that so you're talking about they say well 321 00:19:58,980 --> 00:20:02,190 radio is old and It's, you know, I don't know what the range 322 00:20:02,190 --> 00:20:05,850 would be 45 and up 50 And up. And those are the people. Those 323 00:20:05,850 --> 00:20:09,510 are the people that have money. Yeah, you know, the older, the 324 00:20:09,510 --> 00:20:13,320 older the demographic? Yeah, yeah, the more money they have 325 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:15,990 young people don't have money. But that's the ones that 326 00:20:15,990 --> 00:20:19,020 advertisers always want to target the most. And the way 327 00:20:19,020 --> 00:20:22,470 it's always been explained to me as well. Because those are the 328 00:20:22,470 --> 00:20:24,300 ones who are the trendsetters. They're the young 329 00:20:24,390 --> 00:20:28,590 well, okay, but let's, let's just, let's acknowledge that. 330 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:32,460 There's a lot of money in traditional media, in radio and 331 00:20:32,460 --> 00:20:37,080 in television, a lot of it is from pharmaceutical especially 332 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:41,580 on on cable television, so they really dominate telcos I think 333 00:20:41,580 --> 00:20:47,130 is is what's really, it's equally as big. And they target 334 00:20:47,130 --> 00:20:50,700 towards the younger market. And so that the just that and 335 00:20:50,700 --> 00:20:55,440 insurance, that's for everybody things that everybody needs. The 336 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,990 kids get money for that somehow whether the parents are paying 337 00:20:57,990 --> 00:21:00,420 for it, or they have to steal it, there's there's always money 338 00:21:00,420 --> 00:21:03,960 for your cell phone, and some other things. Well, there's 339 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:10,500 your there's your second leg to that, then is we we hear that 340 00:21:10,740 --> 00:21:15,570 podcast skews to an older demographic as well. Or at least 341 00:21:15,570 --> 00:21:18,750 don't know. The stats, is that 342 00:21:19,650 --> 00:21:22,590 it? I don't think it does. I don't think it does anymore. And 343 00:21:22,590 --> 00:21:25,800 I think actually, when you when you start looking at younger 344 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,560 audiences, for example, they are listening to a lot more spoken 345 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:32,460 word now than they we have most of the spoken word there is his 346 00:21:32,460 --> 00:21:34,110 podcasts. And we have a crapload 347 00:21:34,110 --> 00:21:37,500 of millennial producers for no agenda that just showing up to 348 00:21:37,530 --> 00:21:40,260 their new to new to is like oh, yeah, no, I was looking for 349 00:21:40,260 --> 00:21:40,950 something else. 350 00:21:41,550 --> 00:21:45,570 Yeah, yeah. So I think no, we're seeing an awful lot of that. I 351 00:21:45,570 --> 00:21:49,710 mean, you know, Dave, if your question is that if it's 352 00:21:49,710 --> 00:21:53,340 predominantly 55 Plus listening to the radio, why don't 353 00:21:53,340 --> 00:21:55,740 advertisers, why aren't advertisers interested in them? 354 00:21:56,790 --> 00:22:00,420 I think that's a great question. And and it's a question which, 355 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:03,540 frankly, nobody can really understand. I think they are. 356 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,740 Well, other than it's, it's the ad buyers. It's the it's the hot 357 00:22:07,740 --> 00:22:11,100 young things at the ad agencies. Well, you have no life 358 00:22:11,100 --> 00:22:15,180 experience. And so therefore, they're literally buying stuff 359 00:22:15,180 --> 00:22:18,810 on the stuff that they consume. And so they're there. I mean, 360 00:22:18,810 --> 00:22:20,700 you know, there's a great oldest station here, 361 00:22:21,420 --> 00:22:24,480 by the way, is a very, very important, very important point 362 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:29,880 you make there, I have long said that the media buyers, are are 363 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:34,740 just corrupted kids who just want Lakers tickets, and they'll 364 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,130 they'll make the buy on the stuff that they listen to. 365 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:39,930 You're absolutely right. Yeah, 366 00:22:40,050 --> 00:22:44,100 I remember I was working for radio station in London. And we 367 00:22:44,130 --> 00:22:48,480 told the market that we had put up a load of billboard 368 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:53,070 advertising across London. What we'd actually done is we'd put 369 00:22:53,070 --> 00:22:58,110 up about four billboard ads in the street where the advertising 370 00:22:58,110 --> 00:23:01,650 agencies were, because then the advertising agencies would seize 371 00:23:01,650 --> 00:23:04,290 Yes. Oh, wow. This is this is really, you know, they've, 372 00:23:04,530 --> 00:23:09,000 they've spent an awful lot. So the market? Yeah, they blanketed 373 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,420 the market. So you know, you know, the oldest station that I 374 00:23:12,420 --> 00:23:17,220 listened to here, 4k Q You know, I'm, I've just just turned 50. 375 00:23:17,250 --> 00:23:22,020 And I love the music on it's, you know, it's it's sort of, you 376 00:23:22,020 --> 00:23:27,000 know, hot music from the 60s and 70s. It's before my time, but I 377 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,360 love you know, I love the whole feel of it. But all of the ads, 378 00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:36,300 the ads are for pain relief. Yeah. Pest removal for your 379 00:23:36,300 --> 00:23:40,290 house. Yeah. I'm funeral directors, which of course, you 380 00:23:40,290 --> 00:23:41,580 know, prepay funerals, 381 00:23:41,610 --> 00:23:45,090 I was gonna say, if you're hearing this, you're not you're 382 00:23:45,090 --> 00:23:46,680 not ready to be our customer yet. 383 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:48,990 Brought to you by Pfizer 384 00:23:50,190 --> 00:23:54,270 thinking, you know what on earth and the worry, I think for many 385 00:23:54,270 --> 00:23:59,460 people in in radio is that their audiences are literally dying. 386 00:24:00,060 --> 00:24:04,500 You know. So that, that's, that's the concern. And I think 387 00:24:04,500 --> 00:24:06,870 that's why podcasting is interesting, because it is 388 00:24:06,870 --> 00:24:10,620 reaching people with, you know, spoken word content, you know, 389 00:24:10,620 --> 00:24:13,290 music is probably all going to move in the long term is all 390 00:24:13,290 --> 00:24:15,660 going to move over to algorithmic services, like 391 00:24:15,660 --> 00:24:18,570 Spotify, like YouTube music, like, you know, many of the 392 00:24:18,570 --> 00:24:22,470 other things, and spoken word is something that can't be done in 393 00:24:22,470 --> 00:24:26,580 that way. And that's why you're seeing Spotify jumping in with 394 00:24:26,580 --> 00:24:30,480 their purchase of wash car last week, which is a you know, which 395 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,350 is another Australian podcast host. They bought Washko because 396 00:24:34,350 --> 00:24:38,820 Washko has some clever tricks to take radio shows and make them 397 00:24:38,820 --> 00:24:42,540 into podcasts and right, and I was thinking all kinds of other 398 00:24:42,540 --> 00:24:43,050 stuff going 399 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,800 thinking about that. So are they going to be ingesting? Like I 400 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,460 Heart Radio programming? You know, how's that gonna work? 401 00:24:50,460 --> 00:24:52,650 It's gonna be interesting because eventually someone like 402 00:24:52,650 --> 00:24:55,410 the comedians, people are going to start saying, you know, I'm a 403 00:24:55,410 --> 00:24:59,970 little tired. It's like, it's like I specifically opted out. 404 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,770 have Spotify for no agenda, they put it up. I went through the 405 00:25:04,770 --> 00:25:07,230 whole process. I said, take it down, we didn't give you 406 00:25:07,230 --> 00:25:12,270 permission is back up. You know, it's on Facebook. I mean, it's 407 00:25:12,270 --> 00:25:14,100 like, at a certain point, there's gonna be enough people 408 00:25:14,100 --> 00:25:17,340 who are fed up with this crap and like, it's okay. If you make 409 00:25:17,340 --> 00:25:20,400 it available for people but your advertising around it to fuck 410 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,280 you. It's just it just gets a little annoying after a while. 411 00:25:23,790 --> 00:25:27,720 Mm hmm. Yeah, no, I, I would agree with that. I mean, I think 412 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,680 I think, you know, Spotify is plan with that whole Washko 413 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:35,700 thing is to basically it's a completely automated system as I 414 00:25:35,700 --> 00:25:39,600 understand it, Sam, Sam dams using it. Yeah. He sounds smart 415 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,330 as the pod lamp. alright with me. And yeah, and it sounds 416 00:25:42,330 --> 00:25:45,630 really clever that it basically sits there, it seems to record 417 00:25:45,630 --> 00:25:48,990 the internet stream, chop it up and make it available as a 418 00:25:48,990 --> 00:25:49,680 podcast, just 419 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:51,900 11 days, all that shit. Yeah. 420 00:25:51,930 --> 00:25:57,870 I mean, weirdly, that was the thing. My first you know, 421 00:25:58,590 --> 00:26:02,940 investment into podcasting, I guess was back in January of 422 00:26:02,940 --> 00:26:08,310 2005, when I was busy taking the breakfast show from the radio 423 00:26:08,310 --> 00:26:11,400 station that I was working at. And we worked out some 424 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,520 algorithms to, you know, again, pull that out, it was a music 425 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,830 breakfast show as well. So you can imagine how complicated that 426 00:26:16,830 --> 00:26:20,370 was getting rid of all of the music. But you know, pulling 427 00:26:20,370 --> 00:26:24,660 that out making that available as a as a podcast, automatically 428 00:26:24,660 --> 00:26:28,410 within half an hour of it going out on the air. And that, and 429 00:26:28,410 --> 00:26:31,710 that was great. And it sounds as if this is basically that, you 430 00:26:31,710 --> 00:26:36,060 know, at scale, although they're a fully featured podcast host as 431 00:26:36,060 --> 00:26:38,340 well. So they're going to be moving a ton of, you know, 432 00:26:38,340 --> 00:26:42,000 really good shows over to megaphone, I would have guessed. 433 00:26:42,780 --> 00:26:46,140 So is that is that thing worked out? Generally for some, I'm 434 00:26:46,140 --> 00:26:48,990 assuming what's going to happen? Let me preface what I was about 435 00:26:48,990 --> 00:26:51,510 to say with this. I'm assuming that was is what's going to 436 00:26:51,510 --> 00:26:56,340 happen with Captivate is that global is going to buy them and 437 00:26:56,340 --> 00:27:03,390 use their DAX stuff to give them a programmatic option. Is that 438 00:27:04,470 --> 00:27:04,950 make sense? 439 00:27:04,980 --> 00:27:11,580 Yeah, I mean, I mean, I, they've been sort of relatively close. 440 00:27:11,580 --> 00:27:12,360 Have the founders 441 00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:16,830 James is still under NDA. He can't really tell you. Is that 442 00:27:16,830 --> 00:27:20,850 true? I mean, of course it is. It's okay. Because he knows of 443 00:27:20,850 --> 00:27:23,970 course, he sold the strategy to them. This is why I'm so happy 444 00:27:23,970 --> 00:27:29,610 for him. Finally, finally, a win for Grantland. exited actual 445 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:30,300 exit. That's 446 00:27:30,300 --> 00:27:33,150 nice that house renovation costs a lot of money. But I'm telling 447 00:27:33,150 --> 00:27:34,290 you, man, he exited 448 00:27:34,649 --> 00:27:38,609 that house renovation I tell you, yes. My goodness. No, I one 449 00:27:38,609 --> 00:27:42,089 of the things that I do want to do at some point is, is to 450 00:27:42,089 --> 00:27:45,689 finally get rid of this gas. This gas guzzling car of mine. I 451 00:27:45,689 --> 00:27:49,079 know Dave that you still drive a car from you know, I think it 452 00:27:49,079 --> 00:27:52,409 was invented on the on the same year that cars were invented or 453 00:27:52,409 --> 00:27:53,759 trucks renamed in 19. 454 00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:56,520 Henry Ford drove it himself. Yes. 455 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:00,660 Yeah, exactly. But I'm there. I'm there thinking, you know, 456 00:28:00,660 --> 00:28:03,630 maybe now's the time to use those solar panels on my roof 457 00:28:03,630 --> 00:28:07,620 for something for some for some automotive excitement as well. 458 00:28:07,649 --> 00:28:09,659 Do you have you have it hooked up? Do you have the transfer 459 00:28:09,659 --> 00:28:13,139 switch? So you can so you can actually charge an Eevee 460 00:28:13,139 --> 00:28:13,829 directly? 461 00:28:14,639 --> 00:28:18,509 Well, I don't I don't have an Eevee yet. But my plan is to 462 00:28:18,929 --> 00:28:21,989 there's a friend of mine who actually works for Omni studio 463 00:28:21,989 --> 00:28:26,639 and he has used your like this Adam, he has worked out. He's 464 00:28:26,639 --> 00:28:30,959 using the API from his solar panels to work out exactly how 465 00:28:30,959 --> 00:28:35,039 much power is being generated. And he's also worked out the API 466 00:28:35,039 --> 00:28:39,449 for his Tesla so that he can actually tell his Tesla exactly 467 00:28:39,449 --> 00:28:43,199 how much power to pull from the solar panels are cool so he's 468 00:28:43,199 --> 00:28:48,329 basically got it so that it's 98% Yeah, 98% efficiency he 469 00:28:48,330 --> 00:28:52,020 needs it. So he needs an extra Yeah, is he needs a little 470 00:28:52,020 --> 00:28:56,100 headroom like 5% to operate the the pump for the sprinkler when 471 00:28:56,100 --> 00:28:58,890 the battery explodes. So Oh, yes, 472 00:28:59,189 --> 00:29:04,379 spring water doesn't matter. Just prayer is prayer at that 473 00:29:04,379 --> 00:29:04,589 point. 474 00:29:04,620 --> 00:29:09,930 So James, I would say that in this past year, what I saw with 475 00:29:10,110 --> 00:29:14,490 with podcasting 2.0 And you and thank and I am forever grateful 476 00:29:14,490 --> 00:29:17,520 how you've covered podcasting 2.0 Pretty much as the lone 477 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,850 voice in the media in the beginning you stuck with it and 478 00:29:20,850 --> 00:29:26,430 you have you have endured my personality and and and you know 479 00:29:28,380 --> 00:29:31,710 just differences in general but but I know that we respect and 480 00:29:31,710 --> 00:29:35,340 like each other you know in so many different ways but at a 481 00:29:35,340 --> 00:29:39,300 certain point you went kind of from you it feels like it took 482 00:29:39,300 --> 00:29:43,410 the red pill it started with you know okay listen that's great 483 00:29:43,410 --> 00:29:46,290 this funny money I'm paraphrasing this funny money 484 00:29:46,290 --> 00:29:49,260 but that's okay we did that we got out of the shit to do was 485 00:29:49,260 --> 00:29:53,970 the message that I recall, too. I can boost the Graham corner on 486 00:29:54,630 --> 00:29:58,500 your podcast. Was there a moment when when it when it clicked and 487 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,800 it all came together? For you, they're like, oh, okay, I can 488 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:06,480 see, first of all, how not just how to use it, but you know 489 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,910 what, what, what should we can come up with? Right? You're 490 00:30:08,910 --> 00:30:11,580 inventive. You're, you're Tinker, you like doing stuff. So 491 00:30:11,580 --> 00:30:14,640 you know what new things we can do with it. And also the 492 00:30:14,730 --> 00:30:18,750 basically that there's validity to the value transfer system, 493 00:30:18,750 --> 00:30:22,080 because unless I'm mischaracterizing how you feel 494 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:22,740 about it now. 495 00:30:23,700 --> 00:30:28,890 Yeah, I mean, I ate took me a long time to get into the whole 496 00:30:28,890 --> 00:30:34,920 idea of cryptocurrency. And to just get my head around it. And 497 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,430 I'm sure that that is the same way as many people, I know that 498 00:30:38,430 --> 00:30:41,790 there are many sort of, you know, doubters out there who are 499 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:47,490 not completely sold on this on this whole idea so far. But from 500 00:30:47,490 --> 00:30:51,360 a point of view of the whole value for value thing, I was 501 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,090 listening to you on the mere mortals podcast a couple of 502 00:30:54,090 --> 00:30:58,770 weeks ago. And yeah, and you know, just just going through, 503 00:31:00,060 --> 00:31:04,980 you know, the whole ethos behind it. And, and it works so much 504 00:31:04,980 --> 00:31:10,050 better with crypto. Because you don't have that ridiculous, you 505 00:31:10,050 --> 00:31:14,730 know, whatever it is 29 cent plus 3.1%, blah, blah, blah, you 506 00:31:14,730 --> 00:31:18,840 know, of every single payment. It just works so much better 507 00:31:18,870 --> 00:31:22,800 with it. And so I think that was one side, but the other side was 508 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:28,650 just just the whole streaming SATs thing left me quite cold. 509 00:31:29,100 --> 00:31:33,090 But as soon as the booster gram corner cannula, or booster grams 510 00:31:33,090 --> 00:31:36,600 came along, because you know, as I as I've been telling other 511 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:41,220 people this, it's a way of getting feedback from your 512 00:31:41,220 --> 00:31:45,450 audience, which you know, I'm a radio guy, I used to get lots of 513 00:31:45,450 --> 00:31:49,110 feedback from my audience. That was great. But it's a way of 514 00:31:49,110 --> 00:31:51,270 getting feedback from your audience that is always 515 00:31:51,270 --> 00:31:55,980 positive. Because if you are spending money, sending a 516 00:31:56,250 --> 00:31:59,160 message, sending a booster gram, it's always going to be 517 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,470 positive. You're not You're not going to be spending money 518 00:32:01,470 --> 00:32:02,340 saying hey, you 519 00:32:02,340 --> 00:32:06,630 suck. You're rubbish. You should live my life. What are you 520 00:32:06,630 --> 00:32:13,110 talking about? That's when it feels extra special. Yeah. 521 00:32:14,070 --> 00:32:17,280 When somebody does spend money, that you're a pile of crap. 522 00:32:17,310 --> 00:32:19,650 Yeah. I mean, that makes you feel good inside you like 523 00:32:22,290 --> 00:32:24,240 good point. Very good point. 524 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,720 No, but I bet I just I just really liked that there was, you 525 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:32,100 know, when I was on the on the radio, it was a long, long time 526 00:32:32,100 --> 00:32:36,480 ago. And the way that the audience would communicate would 527 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:42,420 either be a telephone call? Or, or letters, letters through the 528 00:32:42,420 --> 00:32:46,170 post. Yep. Sacks form? And you would, yeah, and you would wait 529 00:32:46,170 --> 00:32:49,740 three or four? Well, not not in terms of me. You would wait 530 00:32:49,740 --> 00:32:52,530 three or four days. And then And then something that you had 531 00:32:52,530 --> 00:32:56,730 said, four days ago, somebody would send you a little Brian 532 00:32:56,730 --> 00:32:59,490 Right, you know, and spend some time and spend some money on the 533 00:32:59,490 --> 00:33:03,870 Royal Mail and, you know, and all this kind of stuff. And, you 534 00:33:03,870 --> 00:33:08,580 know, and I and and two things happened when we started getting 535 00:33:08,610 --> 00:33:12,210 SMS messages, and then of course, email and, you know, and 536 00:33:12,210 --> 00:33:15,150 everything else, two things happen. Firstly, the feedback 537 00:33:15,150 --> 00:33:18,990 was instant, absolutely instant. As soon as you started a new 538 00:33:18,990 --> 00:33:22,350 song a bit, you get people saying, What's this? What's this 539 00:33:22,350 --> 00:33:28,380 rubbish. But also secondly, it was it opened up the floodgates 540 00:33:28,380 --> 00:33:31,410 for people to be negative. And I think if I was a radio 541 00:33:31,410 --> 00:33:36,120 presenter, you know, over the last 10 years, which I've not 542 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,580 been, I've not been behind the microphone for the last 10 543 00:33:38,580 --> 00:33:40,740 years. If I was a radio presenter over the last 10 544 00:33:40,740 --> 00:33:43,800 years, my god you know, you'd need to be really strong you 545 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,200 need to be really mentally strong because you just have 546 00:33:46,500 --> 00:33:50,040 every single time you opened your mouth, you'd have feedback 547 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,430 so who's rubbish? What's this rubbish song you're playing? You 548 00:33:53,430 --> 00:33:54,150 know and all of that. 549 00:33:54,150 --> 00:33:56,100 Do you not have Twitter James Cridland? 550 00:33:58,350 --> 00:34:02,190 Well, yeah, you know, I mean, you know, Twitter is Twitter is 551 00:34:02,190 --> 00:34:05,910 fine, but you're not you're not performing you know, you're 552 00:34:05,910 --> 00:34:06,270 there 553 00:34:06,270 --> 00:34:11,370 your show there. But there's the difference for me. And there's a 554 00:34:11,370 --> 00:34:17,010 difference between a radio show that is turned into a podcast 555 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:21,930 and a podcast. It's all of that it's Yes sure. It's a show and 556 00:34:21,930 --> 00:34:24,300 sure you can think about it but you're not you're no longer 557 00:34:24,300 --> 00:34:28,800 constrained so tightly you don't have to hit the ad break you 558 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:33,510 don't have to hit the top you don't you don't you know if you 559 00:34:34,110 --> 00:34:37,200 these days it's very rare even for except perhaps for the 560 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,560 powerful morning jock to actually break the format and 561 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:44,640 replace a song. Oh my god. I mean, that kind of stuff. The 562 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,160 music directors hotline. What did you do, man? I'm looking at 563 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,380 the list. I can't believe you Jane DacMagic wrong. I 564 00:34:49,380 --> 00:34:53,790 will tell you what I tell you what my my most fun was. I used 565 00:34:53,790 --> 00:34:56,490 to be the swing jock on a radio station it used to reach about 566 00:34:56,490 --> 00:34:59,190 1.2 million people. Familiar 567 00:34:59,220 --> 00:34:59,970 terminology though. 568 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:04,290 Yeah, no, don't say that in America, James, this just people 569 00:35:04,290 --> 00:35:07,200 don't understand exactly what that is. Oh, no Swing. 570 00:35:07,470 --> 00:35:10,710 Swing chop may be something completely different. Yes, sir. 571 00:35:11,190 --> 00:35:14,730 Much like, Please, can I can I catch your flag? Yeah. 572 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:21,270 Completely different. Yes. So I used to be the radio DJ who was 573 00:35:21,270 --> 00:35:25,080 on Dave When other radio DJs were having a holiday, because I 574 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,450 wasn't good enough. For it's 575 00:35:27,450 --> 00:35:32,460 called, therefore, baby string, B string. We've all done it. 576 00:35:33,240 --> 00:35:36,570 Yes. Yeah, we've all we've all done. Yeah, of course. So 577 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,320 while and so one of the things I loved about that is that I would 578 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,800 get some of the weird shows that nobody would necessarily want to 579 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,850 end up doing. And Christmas breakfast is a fantastic time to 580 00:35:47,850 --> 00:35:51,390 be on the radio. I was on the radio between six and 10 in the 581 00:35:51,390 --> 00:35:53,880 morning, which is great, because frankly, you know, you've got 582 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,510 the whole Christmas day in front of you, six until 10. Here I am, 583 00:35:57,540 --> 00:36:01,410 you know, playing some songs and, and whatever. And just the 584 00:36:01,410 --> 00:36:05,550 amount of calls that you get is great. But also, I was given the 585 00:36:05,550 --> 00:36:10,680 same music log for a typical breakfast with you know, with 586 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:16,380 the breakfast Zoo, and people. And so therefore I had I had you 587 00:36:16,380 --> 00:36:20,700 know, I was there. In my first hour go. It's only half past 588 00:36:20,700 --> 00:36:24,210 six. And I've run out of songs. I literally run out of songs. So 589 00:36:24,210 --> 00:36:27,360 I started I started playing it was Christmas practice. And so I 590 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:31,050 thought, right, I'm just going to play any old Christmas music. 591 00:36:31,050 --> 00:36:34,020 I ended up this was a top 40 station. I ended up playing 592 00:36:34,020 --> 00:36:35,280 Doris Day. Yeah. 593 00:36:35,790 --> 00:36:38,160 You ended up getting fired. Just what happened? 594 00:36:38,339 --> 00:36:43,949 Yeah. No, no, no, not not. Not only was I not fired, I realized 595 00:36:43,979 --> 00:36:48,449 quite late in the show that the next person on was the program 596 00:36:48,449 --> 00:36:52,019 director was coming in and taking over and he came in and 597 00:36:52,019 --> 00:36:53,759 he just said, I really like the music. You've 598 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:57,270 got lucky. But it was 599 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:02,280 just fantastic. I mean, just what a great time to be on the 600 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,850 radio. And now of course, it's completely automated. It'll be 601 00:37:05,850 --> 00:37:09,390 from you know, hundreds if not 1000s of miles away. Even and 602 00:37:09,420 --> 00:37:10,320 everything else. 603 00:37:10,980 --> 00:37:16,650 The automation part is so did you I don't know if you saw John 604 00:37:16,650 --> 00:37:21,240 Spurlock tweeted something from a prominent YouTuber. This guy's 605 00:37:21,240 --> 00:37:25,320 got like 15 million subscribers. Did any of you see? Yeah, yeah, 606 00:37:25,380 --> 00:37:30,180 I saw it. So did you see this James? It's a he's using 607 00:37:31,140 --> 00:37:35,280 automation and AI. So basically, he said, He's, this guy's been 608 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,550 putting out YouTube content every 10 years, literally every 609 00:37:38,550 --> 00:37:42,900 day for 10 years. And he said, Okay, I'm gonna want to retire. 610 00:37:43,530 --> 00:37:48,030 And he said, but um, but I'm not going to retire the channel. I'm 611 00:37:48,030 --> 00:37:52,980 just going to retire myself. And what I need is for there to be 612 00:37:52,980 --> 00:37:58,260 content for the channel. So he's using the audio scheme as like 613 00:37:58,260 --> 00:38:04,710 speech synthesis to clone a voice and an anime animated on 614 00:38:04,710 --> 00:38:10,440 screen personality. This 3d animated like a meme? 615 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,160 Yes. It's like the man. It's the metaverse. Basically. He's 616 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:17,700 crazy. He's gonna be the first Metaverse, Metaverse star. And 617 00:38:17,700 --> 00:38:20,850 if you look at the videos, it's like a nightmare. 618 00:38:21,030 --> 00:38:25,350 They're terrible. Yeah, that's what it looks like to me. Is it 619 00:38:25,350 --> 00:38:29,640 somebody typing? Like somebody will play through a video game, 620 00:38:29,850 --> 00:38:34,530 and then somebody else will come back and type some content into 621 00:38:34,530 --> 00:38:38,490 the into a transcript file. It kind of fits with the scene. 622 00:38:38,670 --> 00:38:42,270 Yeah. And then it will read it out in this fake voice and the 623 00:38:42,270 --> 00:38:45,210 animated thing will have reactions to it. And that's the 624 00:38:45,210 --> 00:38:48,690 video and he's gonna put out these little one a day. And he 625 00:38:48,690 --> 00:38:49,260 says like 626 00:38:49,260 --> 00:38:50,790 Max Headroom, but not good. 627 00:38:52,890 --> 00:38:55,860 But it's the future man. You know what it is? These are the 628 00:38:55,860 --> 00:39:00,510 training wheels, you know? And I'll give Zuckerberg this that 629 00:39:00,510 --> 00:39:04,500 Metaverse idea is dynamite. Because every everyone's primed 630 00:39:04,500 --> 00:39:10,470 for it. And they've learned how to build object oriented style 631 00:39:10,500 --> 00:39:15,480 in Minecraft. You know, we've long been since conditioned that 632 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,480 okay, VR headset is not all that kooky. We understand kind of 633 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:22,260 what it does. Oh, look at the business applications. It's 634 00:39:22,260 --> 00:39:25,530 going to be perfect. This is a great place for people to live. 635 00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:28,170 I've checked it out a couple of the like the open source 636 00:39:28,170 --> 00:39:32,490 metaverse. I mean, it's for me, it's a total nightmare. I hate 637 00:39:32,490 --> 00:39:35,250 everything about it. But I can see where you know cuz there you 638 00:39:35,250 --> 00:39:39,180 can be whatever you want to be. You know, Brian of London had no 639 00:39:39,180 --> 00:39:41,760 legs. I'm sure that's what he wanted to be when he was doing 640 00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:45,330 his little high presentation. You know, sir, it's, 641 00:39:46,140 --> 00:39:50,880 that's disturbing. It is. It is. It's disturbing this that things 642 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:55,110 that used to be human are are increasing because if this thing 643 00:39:55,170 --> 00:39:58,320 type of thing works out, and I don't know just being triggered 644 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:00,510 by what you said about radio automation And then that kind of 645 00:40:00,510 --> 00:40:04,500 thing, that human connection is being taken away from all Yeah. 646 00:40:04,530 --> 00:40:07,350 From the performing arts. Yes, yes. 647 00:40:07,410 --> 00:40:12,930 Yes. From God. And to me that that that is what defines what 648 00:40:12,930 --> 00:40:15,960 radio is all about is a human connection and a shared 649 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:19,650 experience. And that, by the way, is also what podcasting is 650 00:40:19,650 --> 00:40:22,620 about. Yes, you exactly right shared experience, 651 00:40:22,620 --> 00:40:25,890 except podcasting is captured at Radio was forgotten that 652 00:40:25,890 --> 00:40:28,170 important point that you just made there? That's why you're a 653 00:40:28,170 --> 00:40:29,250 radio consultant. 654 00:40:29,669 --> 00:40:33,059 Mm hmm. Yeah. And I think you know, radio, in many parts of 655 00:40:33,059 --> 00:40:34,919 the world has forgotten there are still there are still some 656 00:40:34,919 --> 00:40:37,949 great radio stations. But I think in, in many parts of the 657 00:40:37,949 --> 00:40:41,309 world, it's, you know, 10 great songs in a row. You know, it's 658 00:40:41,309 --> 00:40:45,119 an automated system. And, and that's not necessarily, you 659 00:40:45,119 --> 00:40:49,259 know, that's not what anybody really wants. And what I think 660 00:40:49,259 --> 00:40:53,459 is interesting is seeing the the effects of the pandemic on radio 661 00:40:53,459 --> 00:40:57,719 listening, actually, in the states radio listening dive 662 00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:02,309 bond, here in Australia, actually, no radio listening, 663 00:41:02,669 --> 00:41:07,139 went up. And it went up, particularly around those radio 664 00:41:07,139 --> 00:41:10,049 stations that were doing more than just playing top 40 songs. 665 00:41:10,740 --> 00:41:12,840 And I've heard a lot of it because a lot of people have 666 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:16,620 sent me stuff that's going on radio wise in Australia during 667 00:41:16,650 --> 00:41:20,910 the past 24 months. And it to me, it sounded like you're 668 00:41:20,910 --> 00:41:24,150 exactly right. Because yet, you know, all the the big kind of 669 00:41:24,150 --> 00:41:27,390 state run stations, they're just telling everyone what's 670 00:41:27,390 --> 00:41:30,540 happening. But here it was Collins, people saying, Oh, 671 00:41:30,540 --> 00:41:33,690 here's what I'm experiencing. And, you know, the experts and, 672 00:41:33,870 --> 00:41:36,480 and doctors, there was really the conversation was taking 673 00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:41,040 place there. And podcasting is not even really appropriate for 674 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:45,420 that type of interaction in a different way. But that, you 675 00:41:45,420 --> 00:41:48,330 know, when you're in an emergency situation, lockdown, 676 00:41:48,330 --> 00:41:51,960 people are scared. That's when we had Snowmageddon. When we 677 00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,690 were locked in, we had no electricity for five days 678 00:41:54,690 --> 00:41:58,170 couldn't get out the house in Texas, our local radio station 679 00:41:58,170 --> 00:42:01,440 was that was the connection, it was better than anything was 680 00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:06,000 better than any news source and the government. Mm hmm. That's 681 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:08,790 what radio was grayed out, that's when it excels is just 682 00:42:08,970 --> 00:42:11,760 too damn expensive to keep it running, you know, the rest of 683 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,460 the 10 years that is just bland and not necessary. 684 00:42:15,510 --> 00:42:19,590 I wonder what about like, when it comes to booshka? Do you 685 00:42:19,590 --> 00:42:22,710 think that they got into that? Because they're their technology 686 00:42:22,710 --> 00:42:26,790 is novel? Do you think that they get into that mindset, because 687 00:42:26,790 --> 00:42:29,400 of the strength of Australian radio? Is that? Did they come 688 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:33,030 out of that? Or are they just clever guys that had an idea? 689 00:42:33,330 --> 00:42:33,810 Well, 690 00:42:34,860 --> 00:42:37,110 I mean, I think two things on that. I think firstly, whisker 691 00:42:37,110 --> 00:42:40,410 is is a full service podcast host, it just happens to have a 692 00:42:40,410 --> 00:42:44,040 feature that Spotify quite liked. And so you know, that 693 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:45,660 radio repurposing feature? 694 00:42:46,050 --> 00:42:49,020 They're just small, though that I mean, they don't have based on 695 00:42:49,020 --> 00:42:51,660 the stats that I've seen, I think they've only got maybe 696 00:42:51,690 --> 00:42:53,250 15,000 podcasts. Is that right? 697 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:56,730 Yeah. And they're still a relatively small day, they also 698 00:42:56,730 --> 00:43:01,500 sell advertising in shows I think Freakonomics Radio hear, 699 00:43:02,490 --> 00:43:05,040 they wrap it in terms of advertising, stuff like that. So 700 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:08,310 there's a bit of that stuff that goes on as well. But the guy 701 00:43:08,310 --> 00:43:14,670 that runs it was the was a former, you know, very senior 702 00:43:14,670 --> 00:43:19,260 management person from one of the big radio groups. And so, 703 00:43:19,260 --> 00:43:22,620 you know, you can probably see that he would have taken some of 704 00:43:22,620 --> 00:43:27,510 the stuff that he knows, and pull that into the new business 705 00:43:27,510 --> 00:43:31,260 that he had just just started. But I mean, weirdly, that that's 706 00:43:31,260 --> 00:43:36,090 what Omni studio was set up for the other big Australian podcast 707 00:43:36,090 --> 00:43:40,350 host, which is now owned by heart. What what Omni studios 708 00:43:40,350 --> 00:43:44,040 started up doing was actually taking bits, it was a really 709 00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,770 clever thing. It was built into the radio stations, 710 00:43:47,910 --> 00:43:51,450 infrastructure would record everything that the radio DJs 711 00:43:51,450 --> 00:43:54,930 would say, or the radio announcers would say, and it 712 00:43:54,930 --> 00:44:00,780 would then do some clever sort of building of a radio show just 713 00:44:00,780 --> 00:44:05,100 for you a sort of a personalized radio show on the show. So yeah, 714 00:44:05,100 --> 00:44:07,350 it was it was I mean, you know, that 715 00:44:07,590 --> 00:44:11,730 was that plug into dolet or something like that. So it 716 00:44:11,730 --> 00:44:14,460 was Yeah, I mean, it was something it was something like 717 00:44:14,460 --> 00:44:18,270 that it was it would plug into whatever it is that that they 718 00:44:18,270 --> 00:44:22,380 were using here. So RCS rather than let nobody use it let 719 00:44:22,380 --> 00:44:23,550 anymore I'm sorry. 720 00:44:25,530 --> 00:44:28,200 What are you what are the kids using these days? James? 721 00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:30,600 sigh Is that oh, they are all they're all using RCS? 722 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:31,710 I think RCS 723 00:44:32,100 --> 00:44:32,640 OS I don't 724 00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:34,380 know what you're talking about. Explain to me like 725 00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:36,960 oh my god, he says 726 00:44:37,110 --> 00:44:41,190 it's it's it's the it's the thing that you it's the thing 727 00:44:41,190 --> 00:44:44,490 that holds all of the jingles and all of the you know, what 728 00:44:44,490 --> 00:44:47,940 what to let would have to let was this French plant system, 729 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,270 Windows player system, and you will basically go okay, I want 730 00:44:51,270 --> 00:44:53,490 to play this song, followed by this song followed by this 731 00:44:53,490 --> 00:44:55,890 jingle, followed by this song. And then there was a little 732 00:44:55,890 --> 00:44:58,890 button on the top left hand side which was a little picture of an 733 00:44:58,890 --> 00:45:02,100 aeroplane and You press the little picture of the aeroplane 734 00:45:02,100 --> 00:45:05,220 and it's an it's landing lights would start to flash. And you'd 735 00:45:05,220 --> 00:45:08,910 know that then you were on autopilot. So then you could go 736 00:45:08,910 --> 00:45:11,460 out and, and, and or 737 00:45:13,049 --> 00:45:20,159 I heard you want to say I'd have a fag? Yeah. I'm not gonna do it 738 00:45:20,159 --> 00:45:23,549 again. So basically Dave, this is this is like I use Mr. List, 739 00:45:23,549 --> 00:45:26,069 you know, it's like a modular approach. And you know, every, 740 00:45:26,189 --> 00:45:30,179 every station or every DJ can build their own screens, and you 741 00:45:30,179 --> 00:45:33,419 got to your cart machines and, you know, your songs and how 742 00:45:33,419 --> 00:45:36,599 they are listed. And the and then the, it integrates with the 743 00:45:36,599 --> 00:45:39,719 advertising department, and they control the ad slots in the 744 00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:44,549 rundown, RCS works.com It's pretty interesting. So that's, 745 00:45:44,609 --> 00:45:45,269 that's high. 746 00:45:45,720 --> 00:45:52,770 owned, owned by iHeart. Yeah. Yep. As many of these things Oh, 747 00:45:52,919 --> 00:45:54,239 yeah. Okay, that's 748 00:45:54,240 --> 00:45:56,970 a that's a wonder they're broke. By all 749 00:45:57,509 --> 00:46:01,889 that story, there are different sad topic. But in general, this, 750 00:46:01,889 --> 00:46:05,549 this is a pet peeve of mine about Silicon Valley, and VC and 751 00:46:05,549 --> 00:46:12,779 all these sort of startups that they the tagline of many of the 752 00:46:12,779 --> 00:46:17,699 startups that are that are looking for exits is, don't do 753 00:46:17,699 --> 00:46:23,039 this thing yourself, you need to let us do it for you. So that 754 00:46:23,039 --> 00:46:26,879 you can focus on what on the real core of your business. So 755 00:46:26,879 --> 00:46:30,809 don't waste your time doing this other thing. But as you need, 756 00:46:30,839 --> 00:46:32,969 because that's not your core business. So you need to you 757 00:46:32,969 --> 00:46:37,799 need to let us do that. But what we see the you put the light of 758 00:46:37,799 --> 00:46:43,199 that when you see all of these other companies in these big 759 00:46:43,199 --> 00:46:47,069 companies, all consolidating and pulling all that stuff back in 760 00:46:47,069 --> 00:46:50,519 house, none of them are the big boys. Let's just say Ilana like 761 00:46:50,519 --> 00:46:53,939 drop, the first thing I saw, this was Dropbox, Dropbox 762 00:46:53,939 --> 00:46:59,489 started hosting its own servers. Apple is bring starts bringing 763 00:46:59,489 --> 00:47:02,279 all their production and everything back in house. All 764 00:47:02,279 --> 00:47:05,399 these companies these these large companies are becoming 765 00:47:05,399 --> 00:47:11,129 more and more vertical, and sucking all these these other 766 00:47:11,129 --> 00:47:13,559 things that you would think are not part of their core business 767 00:47:13,559 --> 00:47:15,239 back in and doing it themselves how 768 00:47:15,240 --> 00:47:18,690 VCs exit. That's, that's the only way these days IPOs are 769 00:47:18,690 --> 00:47:21,570 rare. Everyone's just building features for Google, Facebook 770 00:47:21,570 --> 00:47:23,310 and an apple etc. 771 00:47:24,060 --> 00:47:30,300 Yeah, I would love like, that's my thing is we companies 772 00:47:30,510 --> 00:47:35,220 outsource way too much stuff to third to third parties under 773 00:47:35,220 --> 00:47:38,130 this guise of well, you know, we'll pay these guys to do it, 774 00:47:38,130 --> 00:47:41,670 because then we can focus more on orbit or core business. Yeah, 775 00:47:41,700 --> 00:47:45,240 but no, no huge successful company actually works that way. 776 00:47:45,240 --> 00:47:47,760 They may for a period of time, but they usually end up running 777 00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:50,640 everything back in. And you see that in the podcast industry. I 778 00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:54,840 mean, Spotify is going around buying up radio, people and our 779 00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:57,600 hearts sucking up everything into the world. I mean, nobody 780 00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:02,430 else seems to adhere to that moniker, except small businesses 781 00:48:02,460 --> 00:48:06,000 get duped into the, you know, into the ecosystem that allows 782 00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:07,620 rich people to get more exit strategies. 783 00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:12,180 Well, it does seem to be a particularly North American 784 00:48:12,180 --> 00:48:16,680 thing as well, though. There's a lot of, you know, I mean, I, I 785 00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:21,390 spent some time working on a piece of boring technology for 786 00:48:21,390 --> 00:48:26,400 cars. And what was interesting is seeing the European view, 787 00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:30,330 which was right, how do we build this, this technology into is 788 00:48:30,330 --> 00:48:33,480 for radio stations to get into cars a little bit better? So it 789 00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:36,570 was right, okay, well, how do we build this technology, where's 790 00:48:36,570 --> 00:48:39,690 the specifications, blah, blah, blah, that was very much the 791 00:48:39,690 --> 00:48:43,290 European view was, you know, okay, we want to build this tech 792 00:48:43,290 --> 00:48:47,130 ourselves. And that's cool. Here's all of these specs, and 793 00:48:47,190 --> 00:48:50,070 all of the American broadcasters that we were going to, in this 794 00:48:50,070 --> 00:48:52,980 particular case, was saying, Great, who can do this for us. 795 00:48:54,270 --> 00:48:59,250 And I found that really quite sad. You know, I mean, in the 796 00:48:59,250 --> 00:49:02,340 same way, you know, when I worked at the original virgin 797 00:49:02,340 --> 00:49:06,000 radio in London, we built our own content management system, 798 00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:10,350 we built our own website, from the ground up, we didn't go out 799 00:49:10,350 --> 00:49:13,410 and use, you know, the content management systems that were 800 00:49:13,410 --> 00:49:15,990 available, because they didn't do the job very well. And 801 00:49:15,990 --> 00:49:19,050 actually, we knew that we could do a better job if we built our 802 00:49:19,050 --> 00:49:24,390 own tech in the same way that pod news does now. And and there 803 00:49:24,390 --> 00:49:28,170 are so many people who will, you know, for speed and there are 804 00:49:28,170 --> 00:49:31,320 good reasons, you know, for that, and you know, it's 805 00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:34,470 probably cheaper, but just buy something off the shelf and try 806 00:49:34,470 --> 00:49:39,240 and, you know, squeeze in as much as much additional random 807 00:49:39,240 --> 00:49:41,670 code as they possibly can do instead of just, you know, 808 00:49:41,670 --> 00:49:43,500 building the thing up from the ground as 809 00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:46,950 well. And there's also the there's also the monoculture 810 00:49:46,950 --> 00:49:50,100 aspect to it, because when whenever you develop a huge 811 00:49:50,100 --> 00:49:52,320 monoculture around anything, look at the log for Jay 812 00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:55,140 vulnerability that's sweeping like wildfire through the 813 00:49:55,140 --> 00:49:58,110 internet right now. You know, everyone, everybody is abusing 814 00:49:58,110 --> 00:50:02,310 the same tech. Well, then you had a huge humongous vendor? 815 00:50:02,670 --> 00:50:03,060 Yeah. 816 00:50:03,780 --> 00:50:07,110 I mean, what we're seeing that everywhere AWS, I mean, with 817 00:50:07,110 --> 00:50:11,490 everything, kind of with that in mind, James, if we can just 818 00:50:11,490 --> 00:50:14,550 imagine for a moment collectively we are the, the 819 00:50:14,550 --> 00:50:18,480 Duchess of Kent, we have two daughters left, kind of now, 820 00:50:18,510 --> 00:50:24,150 they're not the prettiest ones. Can we still marry off blueberry 821 00:50:24,150 --> 00:50:30,030 and Lipson? Yeah, 822 00:50:30,060 --> 00:50:33,570 there's a question. There is an interesting question. I mean, I 823 00:50:33,570 --> 00:50:35,400 think Libsyn 824 00:50:36,150 --> 00:50:39,960 seems to Lipson seems too messy seemed like everything. I know, 825 00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,750 I don't know if they cleaned it up with that last guy. But it's 826 00:50:42,750 --> 00:50:45,090 like, oh, the accounting and there's issues and there's 827 00:50:45,090 --> 00:50:46,830 dangling crap. 828 00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,010 Yeah. I mean, I think to be fair, I think you get that with 829 00:50:50,010 --> 00:50:54,930 any large, large company. And I think, you know, you you, you 830 00:50:54,930 --> 00:50:58,110 know, it's just that the fact that Libsyn is a quoted company, 831 00:50:58,110 --> 00:51:01,290 it means that they have to tell the SEC about this means that 832 00:51:01,290 --> 00:51:04,860 they are far more visible in terms of what they're doing. I 833 00:51:04,860 --> 00:51:09,270 think Libsyn is a heritage podcast host, which, I mean, it 834 00:51:09,270 --> 00:51:13,230 was one of the first if not the first. And I think one of the 835 00:51:13,230 --> 00:51:16,470 difficulties that you're about, and that was 836 00:51:16,500 --> 00:51:19,050 well, now I'm laughing because it makes it makes me think it 837 00:51:19,050 --> 00:51:21,810 makes me think of heritage turkey for some reason. I don't 838 00:51:21,810 --> 00:51:25,290 know. It's just like, yeah, that's Yeah, okay. Okay, I'm 839 00:51:25,290 --> 00:51:26,100 with you. Okay. 840 00:51:27,390 --> 00:51:31,350 So I think I think you know, what Libsyn has is it doesn't 841 00:51:31,350 --> 00:51:35,940 seem from from this far out, it doesn't seem to have enough devs 842 00:51:35,940 --> 00:51:40,890 working there. They've been promoting Libsyn, five new rules 843 00:51:40,890 --> 00:51:45,390 for five years. Yeah. For like many years. And it just seems to 844 00:51:45,390 --> 00:51:49,920 me if I was the new, the new guy that's running that place, now 845 00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:54,060 Brad's to pack I would be doubling if not tripling the 846 00:51:54,060 --> 00:51:57,870 amount of devs are working on that on that stuff, and just 847 00:51:57,870 --> 00:52:03,660 move forward? Or just go out and buy, you know, a modern podcast 848 00:52:03,660 --> 00:52:09,990 host? And retrofit stuff in? How about some new clients? 849 00:52:10,140 --> 00:52:13,950 How awesome incest? Why don't we have Lipson by blueberry? 850 00:52:16,170 --> 00:52:19,590 Well, I think blueberry has the same issue in the in that 851 00:52:19,590 --> 00:52:22,470 actually, you know, again, there's an awful lot of heritage 852 00:52:22,470 --> 00:52:26,280 code in there's an awful lot of technical debt. And there's an 853 00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:29,910 awful lot that needs that needs rewriting and rebuilding in both 854 00:52:29,910 --> 00:52:32,580 of those companies, which, which is interesting when you then 855 00:52:32,580 --> 00:52:35,370 have a look at the other ones that are much the same sort of 856 00:52:35,370 --> 00:52:38,820 size, like Buzzsprout, for example, they've been very 857 00:52:38,820 --> 00:52:43,710 nimble, they've been very quick to, you know, to do new things. 858 00:52:44,940 --> 00:52:47,880 And you know, and that is probably because their tech is 859 00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:50,910 in a much better, better place. I mean, there are also 860 00:52:50,910 --> 00:52:55,200 personality issues at Lipson, which will not go into but I 861 00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:59,250 think that that's also been holding things back as well. But 862 00:52:59,280 --> 00:52:59,490 But 863 00:52:59,490 --> 00:53:02,700 ultimately, the question is, is there a suitor? Is there is 864 00:53:02,700 --> 00:53:03,450 there someone out 865 00:53:03,450 --> 00:53:06,570 there as that's who I was gonna ask that what who's the next? 866 00:53:06,570 --> 00:53:09,090 Who's the next podcast host to get sucked up? Or no, 867 00:53:09,090 --> 00:53:11,730 but Who's Buying? And who's going to buy as the question? I 868 00:53:11,730 --> 00:53:14,670 mean, let's just forget the obvious, Spotify, blah, blah, 869 00:53:14,670 --> 00:53:17,850 blah, I don't, it's got is there another radio? I'm 870 00:53:17,850 --> 00:53:18,690 gonna be interested, 871 00:53:18,720 --> 00:53:23,010 but is there a radio related organization that would want to 872 00:53:23,010 --> 00:53:25,830 do the same trick as everyone else seems to be doing? That's 873 00:53:25,830 --> 00:53:26,670 kind of where I'm going, 874 00:53:27,240 --> 00:53:29,970 huh? Yeah. And it's interesting, because actually, there are 875 00:53:29,970 --> 00:53:35,100 quite a few radio companies who are using megaphone issues, of 876 00:53:35,100 --> 00:53:39,900 course, Spotify, so you don't necessarily want to be doing 877 00:53:39,900 --> 00:53:40,380 that, because 878 00:53:40,650 --> 00:53:43,290 they're all they're all gonna want to do this. Everyone sees 879 00:53:43,290 --> 00:53:45,900 the future, they know they have to go there might as well get a 880 00:53:45,900 --> 00:53:49,590 host. You've got everything all in one go. Yeah, maybe heritage 881 00:53:49,590 --> 00:53:51,900 but also Turkey tasty. So 882 00:53:51,900 --> 00:53:56,490 on the on the other side, if they continue using the product 883 00:53:56,490 --> 00:54:00,900 that they're already using, if they continue using megaphone, 884 00:54:00,900 --> 00:54:04,830 then they're giving all of their stats to Spotify. If they 885 00:54:04,830 --> 00:54:07,920 continue using simple cars, they're giving all of their 886 00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:11,880 stats to Sirius XM, which is a competitor. If they continue 887 00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:14,730 using Omni studio, then they're giving all of their stats to I 888 00:54:14,730 --> 00:54:17,040 heart, you know, at the end of the day, which is their 889 00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:21,540 competitor. So therefore, if you're a large publisher, 890 00:54:21,570 --> 00:54:24,540 regardless of whether or not you're a radio company, you 891 00:54:24,540 --> 00:54:27,630 probably need to be keeping that sort of, you know, the crown 892 00:54:27,630 --> 00:54:31,380 jewels of your stats and everything else in house, rather 893 00:54:31,380 --> 00:54:34,740 than giving it to your competitors to run doesn't seem 894 00:54:34,740 --> 00:54:36,300 like a bright plan. 895 00:54:36,300 --> 00:54:39,930 Well, if they just will convert to podcasting 2.0 and value for 896 00:54:39,930 --> 00:54:46,890 value, we'll give them stats and SATs. Instead of pursuing the 897 00:54:46,890 --> 00:54:51,150 dead model of of interruptive advertising, maybe we've eaten 898 00:54:51,150 --> 00:54:53,670 this horse to death. Yes. All right. Well, that 899 00:54:53,670 --> 00:54:58,050 Well, I mean, that kind of takes me back to a couple as I said 900 00:54:58,050 --> 00:55:02,280 this couple of weeks ago and I'm not sure that I made a good 901 00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:06,630 point of it. But it seems to me that the hosting companies that 902 00:55:06,630 --> 00:55:11,220 are successful in an organic way, and I don't mean like with 903 00:55:11,220 --> 00:55:14,700 an exit strategy or a buy up, I mean, they're, they're just 904 00:55:14,700 --> 00:55:18,180 naturally successful. The ones that I'm seeing that are that, 905 00:55:18,300 --> 00:55:21,720 that are that they are successful because they're 906 00:55:21,720 --> 00:55:28,830 doubling down on what podcasting core core customer is. And I 907 00:55:28,830 --> 00:55:31,560 don't mean, on the listener side, I mean, on the, on the on 908 00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:35,520 the host side, on the host on the podcast, creator side, it's 909 00:55:35,550 --> 00:55:40,050 day, but they are companies that are saying, Okay, we know that 910 00:55:40,500 --> 00:55:45,390 50% of the entire market is our independent podcasters who don't 911 00:55:45,390 --> 00:55:49,950 necessarily even care about monetizing them. And they're 912 00:55:49,950 --> 00:55:52,770 saying, Okay, we're going to serve that audience. Those are 913 00:55:52,770 --> 00:55:57,270 our customers. And we're going to make podcasting. super 914 00:55:57,270 --> 00:56:00,630 enjoyable for them. We're never even going to mention 915 00:56:01,140 --> 00:56:04,800 programmatic, we're not going to do any of that stuff. We're just 916 00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:07,680 going to double down on this. Yeah, this segment, I 917 00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:10,680 think, I think there's probably there's probably a middle ground 918 00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:14,730 there. And I think what what I was interested in Mark and Kira 919 00:56:14,730 --> 00:56:19,170 and doing it to captivate is that they changed the, the 920 00:56:19,170 --> 00:56:22,680 unofficial sort of slogan of their, of their company over to, 921 00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:26,550 you know, we are here for the serious independent podcaster. 922 00:56:27,330 --> 00:56:30,450 And I really liked that serious independent podcast is somebody 923 00:56:30,450 --> 00:56:33,690 who isn't doing it as a hobby, which is what anchor is there 924 00:56:33,690 --> 00:56:37,860 for. It's somebody who is, you know, clearly not part of the 925 00:56:37,860 --> 00:56:41,040 big, you know, the big groups, they're not, they're not going 926 00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:48,330 out finding, finding, you know, corporate clients, and then 927 00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:51,240 everything else, they are specifically there for the 928 00:56:51,240 --> 00:56:54,150 serious independent podcaster. And I thought that that's, 929 00:56:54,180 --> 00:56:58,170 that's a neat plan. And if you build the tools that a serious 930 00:56:58,170 --> 00:57:01,440 independent podcaster might want, you might end up building 931 00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:07,950 a DIY solution as Captivate did, yeah. But that's a DI solution 932 00:57:07,950 --> 00:57:13,050 that 10% 15% of their customers will use, but it's a well 933 00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:16,500 executed one that, you know, that will keep those customers 934 00:57:16,500 --> 00:57:21,270 that want to di, you know, plan with with that particular 935 00:57:21,270 --> 00:57:24,690 company, you know, and similarly, you know, if you 936 00:57:24,690 --> 00:57:29,370 want, you know, all manner of these other, you know, there are 937 00:57:29,370 --> 00:57:33,570 some podcasters that want you to have magic mastering as 938 00:57:33,690 --> 00:57:36,750 Buzzsprout to where, you know, it did sorts out your, your 939 00:57:36,750 --> 00:57:39,330 levels and everything else. And that's, and that's great stuff. 940 00:57:39,330 --> 00:57:43,560 I think, I think where you're seeing interesting podcast hosts 941 00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:47,370 moving is adding a bunch of additional features for those 942 00:57:47,370 --> 00:57:51,180 people that would use those to make it harder for them to 943 00:57:51,210 --> 00:57:52,020 switch away. 944 00:57:52,860 --> 00:57:56,190 It's all it's always a great way to I mean, that's the only true 945 00:57:56,190 --> 00:58:00,720 way to compete is on features and service. At a price. Sure, 946 00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:04,170 but ultimately, it comes down to you know, people will pay for 947 00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:06,060 something they really like. 948 00:58:06,090 --> 00:58:10,230 Yeah. And and, you know, it's what I liked about the captivate 949 00:58:10,980 --> 00:58:13,140 you know, I mean, again, you were you were you were saying 950 00:58:13,140 --> 00:58:16,560 earlier that it took me a while to get on board with the whole 951 00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:20,970 idea of cryptocurrency. It also took me a time to get on board 952 00:58:20,970 --> 00:58:24,570 with the way that captivate was charging its customers. Because 953 00:58:24,570 --> 00:58:27,360 unlike anybody else, Captivate was charging his customers based 954 00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:30,870 on the total downloads that you get, and you look at that, and 955 00:58:30,870 --> 00:58:33,540 you go, that's a weird way of charging people, nobody else 956 00:58:33,540 --> 00:58:37,740 charges people that way. So if I get 30,000 downloads, and I'm 957 00:58:37,740 --> 00:58:41,670 going to pay more than than a podcaster, that gets 10,000 958 00:58:41,670 --> 00:58:44,070 downloads, and then you look at it the other way around, and you 959 00:58:44,070 --> 00:58:47,490 go well, a that's where the main cost is that and customer 960 00:58:47,490 --> 00:58:52,710 support. But also be the more successful your podcast is, the 961 00:58:52,710 --> 00:58:55,800 more you'll end up paying, which means that the company really 962 00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:58,950 wants to make your podcast really successful. You know, 963 00:58:58,980 --> 00:59:01,380 yeah, so actually, it says it's this sort of, you know, 964 00:59:01,380 --> 00:59:04,950 interesting, virtuous circle in terms of, you know, in terms of 965 00:59:04,950 --> 00:59:06,120 a way in a way 966 00:59:06,900 --> 00:59:10,200 that also forces you into into monetizing, though, that that 967 00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:13,050 forces you to have to monetize at a certain level. I mean, that 968 00:59:13,890 --> 00:59:14,490 it just pushed. 969 00:59:15,450 --> 00:59:17,970 But I think, you know, once you've once you've reached 970 00:59:18,420 --> 00:59:21,990 10,000 downloads per per episode, then it's the sort of 971 00:59:21,990 --> 00:59:25,470 thing that you're likely to be considering monetizing anyway, 972 00:59:25,500 --> 00:59:29,190 but you but you could be monetizing in a in a much nicer 973 00:59:29,190 --> 00:59:31,890 way than a 32nd ad. Yeah. 974 00:59:32,190 --> 00:59:34,470 You know, we've we've successfully spoken about 975 00:59:34,470 --> 00:59:38,160 nothing in podcasting 2.0 For the past year. I'm very proud of 976 00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:39,750 us for that. I do want to 977 00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:43,470 relate to the shows podcasting. 1.0 Right. Well, but 978 00:59:43,470 --> 00:59:47,310 this is interesting, and I think relevant and I don't know James 979 00:59:47,310 --> 00:59:49,650 if you had much time to think about this, but this keeps 980 00:59:49,650 --> 00:59:54,690 popping up to me in the honestly I find it annoying, but I'm I'm 981 00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:57,840 cognizant that this is what this is going to be with us. It's 982 00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:00,660 coming and there's so many different versions. Have what it 983 01:00:00,660 --> 01:00:06,690 means. And that's web three. And what I feel coming is this 984 01:00:06,690 --> 01:00:10,050 bullcrap term that has been created for Silicon Valley 985 01:00:10,050 --> 01:00:13,410 companies. Basically, it's replaced blockchain for Silicon 986 01:00:13,410 --> 01:00:18,930 Valley companies to raise money on to go ahead and build things 987 01:00:18,930 --> 01:00:23,490 and give away more free crap to prove that the distributed world 988 01:00:23,490 --> 01:00:26,010 that they own the distributed world, which of course, is 989 01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:30,870 insane on its face, because the whole idea is this distribute 990 01:00:30,900 --> 01:00:35,130 distributed everything. And really, and I've written several 991 01:00:35,370 --> 01:00:38,580 definitions. And I think the, in fact, it's interesting how 992 01:00:38,580 --> 01:00:43,050 podcasting 2.0 Fits is, to some degree, the idea is distributed 993 01:00:43,050 --> 01:00:47,970 load and distributed share in what I call the value flow, but 994 01:00:47,970 --> 01:00:51,210 that would be micropayments, or money or some other some other 995 01:00:51,210 --> 01:00:55,350 value transfer. And that is, you know, clearly a lot of that's on 996 01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:59,490 blockchain. But somehow it's a, it's a bit of a combination of 997 01:00:59,490 --> 01:01:03,630 how value for value. Streaming payments works with the app, 998 01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:07,590 developer getting a piece and the value splits. At the same 999 01:01:07,590 --> 01:01:12,570 time, it's part of what Brian of London has done with his, his 1000 01:01:12,570 --> 01:01:16,950 hive contraption and what's happening over there. Yeah, so 1001 01:01:16,950 --> 01:01:21,030 that's kind of the open the open world that's really kind of 1002 01:01:21,030 --> 01:01:24,900 really doing this and the Dow's the distributed autonomous 1003 01:01:24,900 --> 01:01:28,710 organizations that are using smart contracts to you know, 1004 01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:33,210 invest in a cause or do something positive that that 1005 01:01:33,210 --> 01:01:37,650 community wants, all away from Silicon Valley. So that means at 1006 01:01:37,650 --> 01:01:39,780 the same time for me, and this is I'm going to get to a 1007 01:01:39,780 --> 01:01:44,970 question eventually, is, it feels like web three will bring 1008 01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:50,850 a lot of opportunity, and a lot of tools that will be really 1009 01:01:50,850 --> 01:01:53,700 helpful for everybody that ultimately, these companies may 1010 01:01:53,700 --> 01:01:58,020 never be able to monetize or exit from. But there's gonna be 1011 01:01:58,020 --> 01:02:01,290 a lot of money pouring into this, this kind of concept, and 1012 01:02:01,290 --> 01:02:06,960 that could obliterate the entire storage and bandwidth issue for 1013 01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:10,830 every single hosting company we're talking about. Which 1014 01:02:10,830 --> 01:02:13,830 literally, then brings it down to features and service. 1015 01:02:15,780 --> 01:02:20,220 Yeah, and, you know, I mean, I think, I think, I think features 1016 01:02:20,220 --> 01:02:26,100 and services is, is is the way to go. And, yeah, I mean, it 1017 01:02:26,100 --> 01:02:28,950 does worry me that, you know, and you've put it so eloquently 1018 01:02:28,950 --> 01:02:35,610 there, Adam, that, you know, the whole point, in a lot of what is 1019 01:02:35,610 --> 01:02:41,070 going on here is making sure that there isn't one company in 1020 01:02:41,070 --> 01:02:44,040 charge of anything. And I think that's the, it's the 1021 01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:48,270 frustrating, but also brilliant thing about the podcasting 2.0 1022 01:02:48,270 --> 01:02:51,600 stuff that you've been doing is that nobody is actually in 1023 01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:56,460 charge of, you know, is in charge of anything terms of how 1024 01:02:56,460 --> 01:03:02,040 that how the system works, and, you know, etc. And that means 1025 01:03:02,040 --> 01:03:06,270 that it's slower, because you haven't got large, a large 1026 01:03:06,270 --> 01:03:10,260 company pushing it because they they won't make money from, you 1027 01:03:10,260 --> 01:03:15,600 know, their, for their VCs. Because it isn't a proprietary 1028 01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:23,010 thing. But it also means that it is, or it should be more, more 1029 01:03:23,010 --> 01:03:26,970 permanent, because everybody owns it, because it's available 1030 01:03:26,970 --> 01:03:30,330 to everybody. And I think that's the I was thinking about this, 1031 01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:35,400 this this morning, that there's a big there's a big amount of 1032 01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:40,200 friction between the corporate world, the VC funded corporate 1033 01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:44,340 world, and podcasting, because podcasting has always been 1034 01:03:44,370 --> 01:03:50,370 designed to be open to be as available on as many different 1035 01:03:50,370 --> 01:03:53,250 platforms as you possibly can, because of the great work that 1036 01:03:53,250 --> 01:03:59,520 you that you're doing, Adam, and and the frustration is seeing 1037 01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:02,760 companies like Spotify go, Well, we're going to do video 1038 01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:06,690 podcasting in a different way. And an Amazon going well, we're 1039 01:04:06,690 --> 01:04:10,620 going to do, you know, transcripts in a, you know, in 1040 01:04:10,650 --> 01:04:13,920 in our own way. And you know, and the creators aren't actually 1041 01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:17,070 going to be given the chance to edit their own transcripts, 1042 01:04:17,070 --> 01:04:21,570 which is mental. And all of that kind of stuff of that that to me 1043 01:04:21,570 --> 01:04:25,590 is is the real friction going on at the moment. I mean, I was 1044 01:04:25,590 --> 01:04:30,720 reading something yesterday, the BBC sounds app. So the app that 1045 01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:34,980 the BBC uses to do live radio and podcasts and everything 1046 01:04:34,980 --> 01:04:39,480 else, they were crowing about the fact that they've had 25% 1047 01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:42,420 More podcast listeners this year than they had last year within 1048 01:04:42,420 --> 01:04:46,410 their app. But what they're not releasing is the total amount of 1049 01:04:46,410 --> 01:04:49,440 podcast downloads that they've had in the last year in 1050 01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:52,740 comparison to the before, across all platforms. They're just 1051 01:04:52,740 --> 01:04:55,920 focusing on their app because it's it's our app and we own it. 1052 01:04:56,340 --> 01:04:57,030 You know, it's 1053 01:04:57,090 --> 01:04:59,880 a New York Times is about to do the same thing. Yeah, yeah. 1054 01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:01,500 Yeah, exactly. And 1055 01:05:01,500 --> 01:05:05,100 you know, I always, I always talk about and this is sort of 1056 01:05:05,100 --> 01:05:07,950 radio jargon. But I always talk about these apps being p one 1057 01:05:07,980 --> 01:05:13,230 apps, there are apps for the people who, who, who already 1058 01:05:13,230 --> 01:05:17,280 have a preference number one, for this particular company. So 1059 01:05:17,640 --> 01:05:21,300 the New York Times audio app is going to be downloaded by people 1060 01:05:21,300 --> 01:05:24,570 who love the New York Times. And that's great. But people who 1061 01:05:24,570 --> 01:05:26,670 don't love the New York Times are never going to download this 1062 01:05:26,670 --> 01:05:31,050 thing. Because why on earth would they, whereas a podcast 1063 01:05:31,050 --> 01:05:35,610 app has all of their stuff in it anyway. And a good podcast that 1064 01:05:35,610 --> 01:05:40,860 will help people find new shows that they haven't yet found. And 1065 01:05:40,860 --> 01:05:45,180 so actually, a good podcast app is so much better to these 1066 01:05:45,180 --> 01:05:48,810 companies than building their own stuff, when that's sticking 1067 01:05:48,810 --> 01:05:50,490 their own stuff into a, you know, 1068 01:05:50,520 --> 01:05:55,470 that's what I would love to see. And corporations can do this. 1069 01:05:55,470 --> 01:06:00,660 But hobby clubs and individuals, I would love to see it. Even if 1070 01:06:00,660 --> 01:06:04,680 just a web app. You know, I'm a big fan of the web app. Just, 1071 01:06:04,860 --> 01:06:08,580 you know, like, how about True Crime only, you know, and curate 1072 01:06:08,580 --> 01:06:12,660 the homepage or whatever I you know, I can see what the 1073 01:06:12,660 --> 01:06:16,110 knitting knitting communities huge and curate the homepage. He 1074 01:06:16,110 --> 01:06:18,900 got something going there. It's not that hard. Yeah, I mean, I'm 1075 01:06:19,080 --> 01:06:22,200 saying that, yeah, simply. But there's open source code 1076 01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:25,890 available. We can have so many different types of apps for 1077 01:06:25,890 --> 01:06:28,260 specific groups. I've no problem with that. 1078 01:06:28,740 --> 01:06:32,310 But so there's a there's an app, which launched yesterday on both 1079 01:06:32,310 --> 01:06:36,540 iOS and Android. So on real phones and, and pretend ones 1080 01:06:36,690 --> 01:06:38,490 with you on that. James, you know that 1081 01:06:39,690 --> 01:06:44,580 called Apollo? And Apollo is a podcast out but it's just for 1082 01:06:44,580 --> 01:06:47,370 fiction podcasts. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Really talking about that? 1083 01:06:47,370 --> 01:06:50,610 Yep. So it's got a better list of genres. It's got a better 1084 01:06:50,610 --> 01:06:55,140 it's got more curated playlists in there. Right tools 1085 01:06:55,140 --> 01:06:58,710 specifically for fiction podcast listeners, but of course, great 1086 01:06:58,710 --> 01:06:59,220 Gray, 1087 01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:02,820 they need to be, you know, on 2.0, they need to be using 1088 01:07:03,180 --> 01:07:08,100 chapters, and they they have it that 2.00 No, 1089 01:07:08,100 --> 01:07:11,820 but they Mote they most certainly do. And every time I 1090 01:07:11,820 --> 01:07:15,360 have quite a few podcast app developers call, you know, call 1091 01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:21,690 me and, and, and have a chat. And, you know, we're still at a 1092 01:07:21,690 --> 01:07:24,960 point where we need to be talking to these folks. And 1093 01:07:24,960 --> 01:07:28,440 going well, you know, please. I mean, I had somebody yesterday, 1094 01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:32,040 who was saying, What can I do to get you onto my news social 1095 01:07:32,040 --> 01:07:34,650 podcast app, and it's another one of these social podcast apps 1096 01:07:34,650 --> 01:07:40,740 with comments and everything else. And I'm just going, I'm 1097 01:07:40,740 --> 01:07:45,150 not really that interested in another proprietary social 1098 01:07:45,150 --> 01:07:49,410 podcast app, if you're using the open the open, you know, cross 1099 01:07:49,470 --> 01:07:53,760 across that comments, then great. I'll happily I'll promote 1100 01:07:53,760 --> 01:07:57,270 you jump into this. And I don't, but I don't want to be Yeah, but 1101 01:07:57,270 --> 01:08:02,190 I don't want to be, you know, another podcast app with another 1102 01:08:02,190 --> 01:08:06,510 siloed set of comments that I'll never get to read anyway. We're 1103 01:08:06,510 --> 01:08:08,610 gonna fix that next year, be the point of that. 1104 01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:11,370 We're gonna fix the the comments, we're fixing that. 1105 01:08:12,330 --> 01:08:14,880 That's a no, it's gonna be great about that. To your to your 1106 01:08:14,880 --> 01:08:19,530 point about corporate friction versus open source open projects 1107 01:08:19,530 --> 01:08:25,230 like podcasting. 2.0. Yeah, ultimately, when cross app 1108 01:08:25,230 --> 01:08:29,700 comments are functioning, it will be because thoughtfulness 1109 01:08:29,700 --> 01:08:35,850 went into it. And love. Hmm, that's the I mean, there's real 1110 01:08:35,910 --> 01:08:41,790 thoughtfulness about the future about scenarios about all 1111 01:08:41,790 --> 01:08:48,360 stakeholders. The I, I've said it before, but the the 1112 01:08:48,360 --> 01:08:52,620 development work and just even being able to, to, to kind of 1113 01:08:52,620 --> 01:08:56,490 tag along and see how this comes together. It's one of the most 1114 01:08:56,490 --> 01:08:59,370 beautiful things I've ever seen in my life. I really love this. 1115 01:08:59,370 --> 01:09:03,660 This is so beautiful to see. And and if you want more, 1116 01:09:03,660 --> 01:09:04,500 one more word, 1117 01:09:05,010 --> 01:09:06,180 yeah, thank you. I'm running out 1118 01:09:06,180 --> 01:09:11,790 in its obsession as well. But people are actually are actually 1119 01:09:11,820 --> 01:09:15,930 obsessed with making podcasting better. Yeah, whether that's 1120 01:09:16,110 --> 01:09:20,040 whether that's adding cross app, comments, because we can see the 1121 01:09:20,040 --> 01:09:22,920 real benefits of that, whether it's the whole value for value 1122 01:09:22,920 --> 01:09:26,760 thing, whether it's, you know, just the basics of, you know, 1123 01:09:26,790 --> 01:09:29,940 some apps out there having difficulties resizing images, so 1124 01:09:29,940 --> 01:09:36,390 the podcast images, you know, namespace tag, you know, all of 1125 01:09:36,390 --> 01:09:41,160 that stuff. It's all born out of real real obsession. And yes, 1126 01:09:41,160 --> 01:09:43,620 you know, and I think that's a great I think that's a great 1127 01:09:43,620 --> 01:09:45,750 thing if we can if we can harness that right I think 1128 01:09:45,750 --> 01:09:47,250 that's a fantastic that that was 1129 01:09:47,250 --> 01:09:50,190 being interviewed by Chris Fisher the other day on on their 1130 01:09:50,190 --> 01:09:54,000 podcast network and he's, I made this comment with him is that 1131 01:09:55,920 --> 01:10:00,720 when it when it comes to when it comes to all these types, And, 1132 01:10:00,720 --> 01:10:06,600 and that kind of thing. The beauty of it is that now there's 1133 01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:12,120 a place to go. It's as I was making the point that way, as 1134 01:10:12,120 --> 01:10:16,950 soon as you start doing open standards work, immediately the 1135 01:10:17,160 --> 01:10:21,630 from on high, you start getting pelted with XKCD, comic 1136 01:10:21,630 --> 01:10:24,270 references and you just start getting chastised about you 1137 01:10:24,270 --> 01:10:28,530 know, it's like, Well, okay, yeah, I get it. Okay, fine. Sure 1138 01:10:28,560 --> 01:10:33,390 the funding tag, there was already a tag in the atom 1139 01:10:33,420 --> 01:10:37,860 namespace with lino rel equals payment, blah, blah, blah. Sure, 1140 01:10:37,890 --> 01:10:42,060 I get it. There was already a Yahoo media media, RSS namespace 1141 01:10:42,060 --> 01:10:45,510 and some stuff in there that could possibly have been 1142 01:10:45,510 --> 01:10:49,140 shoehorned into an alternate enclosure type scenario. Maybe. 1143 01:10:50,250 --> 01:10:55,290 The problem with those things, though, is that nobody knows 1144 01:10:55,290 --> 01:10:59,040 who's in control of it. There's no working group that anybody 1145 01:10:59,040 --> 01:11:05,460 can put their hands on or email. The RSS coalition is died years 1146 01:11:05,460 --> 01:11:11,190 ago. Do controls Dublin Core? Anybody? I don't know, who 1147 01:11:11,190 --> 01:11:14,700 controls me. I mean, Yahoo's been bought and sold 15 times 1148 01:11:14,910 --> 01:11:18,780 that none of these existing namespaces that did that people 1149 01:11:18,780 --> 01:11:22,080 reference every occasionally on Twitter, I'll get a post saying, 1150 01:11:22,320 --> 01:11:26,190 Why did you why did you create this tag, you could have used, 1151 01:11:26,640 --> 01:11:31,140 you know, DC content, blah, blah, blah? Well, you know, I'm 1152 01:11:31,140 --> 01:11:34,050 sorry, but Dublin Core, as far as I know, there's no human 1153 01:11:34,050 --> 01:11:36,660 being alive, that actually is in charge of that thing, or 1154 01:11:36,660 --> 01:11:39,990 extending it or changing it in any way. The fact that there's a 1155 01:11:40,440 --> 01:11:49,260 podcast namespace is, is an open modern group on GitHub, did 1156 01:11:49,260 --> 01:11:54,030 exist, that somebody can go and petition and say, Hey, this 1157 01:11:54,030 --> 01:11:57,990 thing works almost the way I need it to work. But there's one 1158 01:11:57,990 --> 01:12:01,170 thing that might be missing that can make it work better in this 1159 01:12:01,170 --> 01:12:05,130 scenario. And you post there, and you may have 10 people reply 1160 01:12:05,130 --> 01:12:07,620 to you and say, oh, yeah, this, I could see this, they could 1161 01:12:07,620 --> 01:12:10,560 work this way. And blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's a living, 1162 01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:15,690 breathing spec, it with with people attached to it. And 1163 01:12:15,690 --> 01:12:20,010 that's something that RSS, and especially RSS namespace 1164 01:12:20,010 --> 01:12:25,800 extensions haven't had in a very long time. And so that's, if 1165 01:12:25,800 --> 01:12:29,010 there's one thing. So I guess what I'm trying to say is, 1166 01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:34,620 you're right, it's an obsession. And, and it's, it's care. But 1167 01:12:34,650 --> 01:12:40,290 also, it's just showing up. Because there's a lot of things 1168 01:12:40,290 --> 01:12:47,280 that podcasting could already almost do. But it just lacked 1169 01:12:47,340 --> 01:12:52,200 that final sort of 10% to bring it up to be what a modern thing 1170 01:12:52,260 --> 01:12:56,130 of what a modern specification would need to operate. Because 1171 01:12:56,130 --> 01:12:59,010 the law, so many of these namespaces have existed for 15 1172 01:12:59,010 --> 01:13:02,490 years. And they'd more like the blueberry, the blueberry 1173 01:13:02,490 --> 01:13:05,820 namespace, their true voice or whatever it's called, that spec 1174 01:13:05,820 --> 01:13:08,550 Had Allah had a lot of interesting stuff. But it was 1175 01:13:08,550 --> 01:13:12,180 built at a time it was created at a time 15 years ago, where a 1176 01:13:12,180 --> 01:13:15,870 lot of modern tech, the way we use the internet doubt didn't 1177 01:13:15,870 --> 01:13:20,070 even exist, rest API's didn't exist. The it was built at a 1178 01:13:20,070 --> 01:13:22,380 different moment in history. So 1179 01:13:22,650 --> 01:13:25,770 and of course, the other and the other side of it was that it was 1180 01:13:25,770 --> 01:13:30,210 owned, it was owned by Todd's company brand. So what you've 1181 01:13:30,210 --> 01:13:33,210 basically then gone is you got Lipson going, Well, why would we 1182 01:13:33,210 --> 01:13:36,030 want that? Because that's that that's owned by the competitor. 1183 01:13:36,390 --> 01:13:39,420 And that's the beauty of what you've done is that you have 1184 01:13:39,420 --> 01:13:44,670 something which I mean, it is owned, but it's owned. It's not 1185 01:13:44,670 --> 01:13:48,030 owned by a big podcast publisher, nor is it owned by a 1186 01:13:48,030 --> 01:13:50,790 big podcast hosting company, 1187 01:13:50,910 --> 01:13:53,880 they'll say you JG opportunities you've built as much as this 1188 01:13:53,880 --> 01:13:57,750 namespaces we have. So that's the there's the that's the 1189 01:13:57,750 --> 01:14:00,750 shared, that's the shared, shared enjoyment of health, the 1190 01:14:00,750 --> 01:14:06,780 farthest thing is gone. What what do you think, on that note, 1191 01:14:08,340 --> 01:14:11,940 what do you think is the most important to I think transcript 1192 01:14:11,940 --> 01:14:14,520 I think maybe we can all agree that that's the most important 1193 01:14:14,520 --> 01:14:16,740 thing. Present, I 1194 01:14:16,740 --> 01:14:20,400 think, I think right now transcript is really exciting. 1195 01:14:20,430 --> 01:14:24,660 So you've got a script, which literally over the weekend, did 1196 01:14:24,660 --> 01:14:29,100 some additional work on their systems to output the right. 1197 01:14:30,540 --> 01:14:31,290 standard 1198 01:14:31,680 --> 01:14:32,640 JSON and 1199 01:14:34,410 --> 01:14:35,580 TT Oh, they 1200 01:14:35,580 --> 01:14:36,900 do VTT fine. Yeah. 1201 01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:41,880 Yeah. And, and so they, they, they ended up doing that so that 1202 01:14:42,780 --> 01:14:46,440 so that you've got the files now completely automatically, that 1203 01:14:46,440 --> 01:14:51,810 work with the podcast transcript namespace. So, if I add this 1204 01:14:51,810 --> 01:14:52,500 cost money 1205 01:14:54,180 --> 01:15:01,980 D script does. But, but the fact that They are building that in a 1206 01:15:02,370 --> 01:15:04,830 great interesting, I mean was great. Wouldn't it be great if 1207 01:15:04,830 --> 01:15:08,400 there was a if there was an open source, you know, version that 1208 01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:12,720 would just produce the the, the transcripts, that'd be 1209 01:15:12,720 --> 01:15:13,320 fantastic. 1210 01:15:13,380 --> 01:15:17,130 What I'd like to do is I'd like to market them if so do you 1211 01:15:17,130 --> 01:15:21,810 basically hand off your mp3 and boom, you get the file back that 1212 01:15:21,810 --> 01:15:26,490 you need. You know, anyone who has this kind of service I want 1213 01:15:26,490 --> 01:15:29,790 to promote, because, you know, this is, this is a big thing. 1214 01:15:29,790 --> 01:15:33,000 Now, people are saying, hey, we need these for legal reasons, as 1215 01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:37,140 you pointed out, many times, so, but also, 1216 01:15:37,170 --> 01:15:40,800 but also for, for advertising reasons. Because if you can see 1217 01:15:40,800 --> 01:15:43,800 what's in the audio, then you know, what's being talked about, 1218 01:15:43,800 --> 01:15:46,830 and you can then target the adverts much, much better. Now, 1219 01:15:46,860 --> 01:15:51,330 none of none of us might want that. But on the other side, 1220 01:15:51,330 --> 01:15:54,300 actually, if that's going to make the adverts slightly less 1221 01:15:54,300 --> 01:15:59,700 bad than that's probably a good thing, too. Yeah. So I think so 1222 01:15:59,700 --> 01:16:02,610 I think there's real opportunity. And it's also a 1223 01:16:02,610 --> 01:16:07,260 really simple thing for a podcast host to support. You 1224 01:16:07,260 --> 01:16:12,150 know, it's it's a couple of fields, and is available. I 1225 01:16:12,150 --> 01:16:14,610 mean, producing the transcript is different producing the 1226 01:16:14,610 --> 01:16:18,420 transcript is complicated. But to support just, you know, 1227 01:16:18,420 --> 01:16:21,690 here's here's a transcript file, stick this somewhere on a server 1228 01:16:21,690 --> 01:16:25,350 and stick this in the RSS feed is super, super simple. Well, 1229 01:16:26,100 --> 01:16:29,640 and so I think, you know, the more of that the we can get, the 1230 01:16:29,640 --> 01:16:33,600 better. But I I certainly see as podcast transcripts being, you 1231 01:16:33,600 --> 01:16:37,920 know, a real a real opportunity to get into the majority of 1232 01:16:37,920 --> 01:16:40,320 podcast hosts, maybe in the next three months. 1233 01:16:40,680 --> 01:16:47,070 Yeah. For me, for me, the most important thing that I would 1234 01:16:47,100 --> 01:16:50,760 would love to see more integration of his pod ping. 1235 01:16:51,990 --> 01:16:58,560 Yeah, I think once. Once pod ping really takes off the power 1236 01:16:58,560 --> 01:17:04,140 of pod ping, it's so fun to say. Because, you know, you can tap 1237 01:17:04,140 --> 01:17:08,370 into the chain for all kinds of different shit. You know, it's 1238 01:17:08,370 --> 01:17:12,660 not just to get into podcast index. I mean, holy crap. Even 1239 01:17:12,660 --> 01:17:15,690 if you're just aggregating feeds, if you just want to have 1240 01:17:15,690 --> 01:17:19,140 feeds for yourself, you know, if you just want to look at things 1241 01:17:19,140 --> 01:17:22,740 or learn something, or look at trends, or, you know, and then 1242 01:17:22,890 --> 01:17:28,320 it's like a, it's like a burst of, of data that spews out every 1243 01:17:28,320 --> 01:17:31,590 10 seconds, and oh, look, it's got a tail and what's Oh, it's a 1244 01:17:31,590 --> 01:17:35,310 transcript attached to it. I mean, if we're doing split 1245 01:17:35,310 --> 01:17:38,700 second, just to play that hat, if we're doing split second 1246 01:17:38,700 --> 01:17:43,140 advertising, you know, auction decisions, programmatically, 1247 01:17:43,320 --> 01:17:45,840 wouldn't you want that kind of data data is always going to be 1248 01:17:45,840 --> 01:17:49,770 very valuable. So the more more we put into pod ping, the more 1249 01:17:49,770 --> 01:17:52,470 valuable it is, and the more valuable it is for everybody, 1250 01:17:52,470 --> 01:17:56,160 because that's something that really no one owns. 1251 01:17:57,480 --> 01:18:00,450 Now, but I bet you can you can kind of almost see the 1252 01:18:00,450 --> 01:18:03,390 differences here being podcast transcript is something that 1253 01:18:03,390 --> 01:18:07,080 doesn't exist as a standard that needs to exist because there's 1254 01:18:07,080 --> 01:18:10,710 real legal benefit for it to exist quite apart from the 1255 01:18:10,710 --> 01:18:14,970 accessibility which is obviously something which is which is 1256 01:18:14,970 --> 01:18:19,380 rather more important than then conversations about legality 1257 01:18:20,490 --> 01:18:23,340 that that's on one side, you've got pod ping on the other that 1258 01:18:23,340 --> 01:18:27,780 makes something that podcasting already does a bit better. And 1259 01:18:27,780 --> 01:18:31,200 so I can well see that some people are turning around and 1260 01:18:31,200 --> 01:18:33,270 saying well, we've just built you know, I mean, Apple for 1261 01:18:33,270 --> 01:18:35,670 example, they've just built their massive great big RSS 1262 01:18:35,910 --> 01:18:40,380 scraper that now touches my RSS feed every five minutes or so. 1263 01:18:41,460 --> 01:18:45,600 And so why why would they want to retool their their stuff 1264 01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:50,550 because it works well enough. And you can kind of see though 1265 01:18:50,580 --> 01:18:55,500 those those two sort of different issues one of them is 1266 01:18:55,620 --> 01:18:58,860 we haven't got this we need this now. And the other side is we've 1267 01:18:58,860 --> 01:19:01,920 got this it's not quite good enough, but it's probably good 1268 01:19:01,920 --> 01:19:04,500 enough for what we want at the moment and we don't want to 1269 01:19:04,500 --> 01:19:09,690 spend the time or I think pod ping is harder but I can I can 1270 01:19:09,690 --> 01:19:11,880 absolutely see this see the benefit of it 1271 01:19:11,910 --> 01:19:18,360 I guess. I guess I see pod ping is something it's so universal 1272 01:19:18,360 --> 01:19:24,570 it's it's such a fantastic idea in its and you just have for me 1273 01:19:24,570 --> 01:19:28,560 it's like I pull my myself out of podcasts index pull away from 1274 01:19:28,560 --> 01:19:35,550 the apps even Kier is a it's a fire hose that spews out really 1275 01:19:35,550 --> 01:19:39,660 rich data every 10 seconds. And it's it can be used for 1276 01:19:39,660 --> 01:19:43,740 entertainment for research for so many different things. Now we 1277 01:19:43,740 --> 01:19:47,850 happen to sit on on one side with podcast index, and we're 1278 01:19:47,850 --> 01:19:51,870 doing one function of that. So just outside I mean, why 1279 01:19:51,870 --> 01:19:56,280 wouldn't musicians use this? You know, hear it or? I mean this, I 1280 01:19:56,280 --> 01:19:59,670 can come up with a million reasons. It just seems like a 1281 01:19:59,670 --> 01:20:03,360 signal mechanism there that we've not had before. This 1282 01:20:03,360 --> 01:20:05,760 isn't, you know, this was web blogs.com, which, by the way 1283 01:20:05,760 --> 01:20:09,870 sold for a million bucks. And a long time ago, when a million 1284 01:20:09,870 --> 01:20:12,090 dollars was now a trillion. 1285 01:20:14,849 --> 01:20:18,299 I think there's a vision gap, I think there's with it, this is 1286 01:20:18,299 --> 01:20:20,789 what I've seen with a lot of these sort of forward looking 1287 01:20:20,819 --> 01:20:25,289 looking things that we have going on, is that there's sort 1288 01:20:25,289 --> 01:20:29,819 of the immediate benefit that everybody may see, but only some 1289 01:20:29,819 --> 01:20:32,789 may find compelling. So something like pod paying would 1290 01:20:32,789 --> 01:20:36,089 be like, well, you can get notified of episodes sooner. 1291 01:20:37,289 --> 01:20:40,409 Well, that's great. But that may not, that's compelling to me, 1292 01:20:40,739 --> 01:20:42,989 and to a lot of people, but it may not be compelling to 1293 01:20:42,989 --> 01:20:47,099 everyone. But then there's also this long term vision where we 1294 01:20:47,099 --> 01:20:52,679 see that down the road, something like live 1295 01:20:52,679 --> 01:20:57,749 notifications, or a podcast, or this podcast feed has switched 1296 01:20:57,749 --> 01:21:00,899 from this host to this other host movement, move 1297 01:21:00,899 --> 01:21:05,009 notifications, things like this that are that are things that 1298 01:21:05,009 --> 01:21:08,519 are actually very, very difficult to figure out. And 1299 01:21:08,519 --> 01:21:11,459 then it does become compelling. So I think there's a gap in 1300 01:21:11,459 --> 01:21:15,689 vision here that takes it's like when you're when you're the sort 1301 01:21:15,689 --> 01:21:21,689 of inventor or, or the the idea behind you see the idea behind 1302 01:21:21,689 --> 01:21:25,589 it, like the podcasting 2.0 community does, you see it in 1303 01:21:25,589 --> 01:21:29,369 full, and it's really hard to get everybody else onto that 1304 01:21:29,369 --> 01:21:33,569 page. So to me that just, but what I see that has to happen in 1305 01:21:33,569 --> 01:21:37,229 situations like that, is we just have to build the things. You 1306 01:21:37,229 --> 01:21:38,519 have to build a building. 1307 01:21:38,550 --> 01:21:41,880 Yeah, I mean, I think shows two sides of that one, I found 1308 01:21:41,880 --> 01:21:47,850 writing the tech stuff section every Monday is trying to 1309 01:21:47,850 --> 01:21:53,460 explain what's been going on in the namespace to explain it to 1310 01:21:53,460 --> 01:21:55,860 somebody that isn't that interested in it in the first 1311 01:21:55,860 --> 01:21:59,160 place. And that's been really interesting. So actually 1312 01:21:59,160 --> 01:22:04,710 explaining why you might want this the new podcast images tag, 1313 01:22:04,710 --> 01:22:08,640 for example, explaining what you can do with that, that actually 1314 01:22:08,640 --> 01:22:13,770 below a certain size, you might want to get rid of the lettering 1315 01:22:13,800 --> 01:22:17,940 from your, you know, artwork. So it's just a nice, a nice icon, 1316 01:22:17,940 --> 01:22:20,850 whatever it whatever it might be. And I think that that's 1317 01:22:20,850 --> 01:22:23,550 probably something that we should focus on a little bit 1318 01:22:23,550 --> 01:22:28,890 more in 2022 is actually explaining, I think there's, I 1319 01:22:28,890 --> 01:22:33,030 think probably the folks in podcast, index dot social, are 1320 01:22:33,030 --> 01:22:38,130 too clever, too intelligent, and have already assumed that 1321 01:22:38,130 --> 01:22:41,730 everybody else understands where they're going and understands 1322 01:22:41,730 --> 01:22:44,760 what this stuff is capable off. And I'm not sure that that's the 1323 01:22:44,760 --> 01:22:47,580 case. And I think it would be good for us to focus a little 1324 01:22:47,580 --> 01:22:53,130 bit more on just writing down what you could do with some of 1325 01:22:53,130 --> 01:22:57,870 this stuff, why this particular tag is important. What why this, 1326 01:22:58,620 --> 01:23:00,990 you know, why you should be implementing this particular 1327 01:23:00,990 --> 01:23:03,690 tag, because I think the more of that the weakened due to 1328 01:23:03,690 --> 01:23:11,220 educate, then the faster the the that podcast 2.0 will actually 1329 01:23:11,220 --> 01:23:12,030 get there. Well, 1330 01:23:12,540 --> 01:23:16,380 I think things like bringing in the Peter wells of the world, is 1331 01:23:16,380 --> 01:23:16,950 that what you're saying? 1332 01:23:18,300 --> 01:23:23,040 I mean, whether or not whether or not you Yeah, whether or not 1333 01:23:23,040 --> 01:23:25,800 you want to go that far, but I think I think just you know, 1334 01:23:27,270 --> 01:23:33,480 just just just pointing to, you know, this is the sort of thing 1335 01:23:33,480 --> 01:23:37,470 that you can do with this tag. So this is what you can do with 1336 01:23:37,470 --> 01:23:39,600 this tag right now. And this is the sort of thing that you could 1337 01:23:39,600 --> 01:23:43,860 do with this tag in the future. And explaining those sorts of 1338 01:23:43,860 --> 01:23:46,620 things. So explaining the alternate enclosure, for 1339 01:23:46,620 --> 01:23:50,790 example, or the alternate enclosure tag could be a really 1340 01:23:50,790 --> 01:23:53,820 interesting tag which enables you to do all kinds of things 1341 01:23:53,820 --> 01:23:57,930 from very low bitrate versions for countries where data is 1342 01:23:57,930 --> 01:24:02,370 expensive to video versions where you can just switch 1343 01:24:02,490 --> 01:24:07,470 automatically between the audio and the video stream and you 1344 01:24:07,470 --> 01:24:09,840 know in your in your client or whatever it is that you're 1345 01:24:09,840 --> 01:24:12,870 actually doing or a bunch of other things as well you know, a 1346 01:24:12,870 --> 01:24:13,830 director's cut, 1347 01:24:14,400 --> 01:24:18,120 James James, what I like is that you're so incredibly good at 1348 01:24:18,120 --> 01:24:21,210 that and I want you to continue to write that you need to write 1349 01:24:21,210 --> 01:24:26,640 these things down. What works in my mind is that's at one level 1350 01:24:26,640 --> 01:24:30,030 but you know even even highly technical people when they see 1351 01:24:30,030 --> 01:24:33,630 heli pad they go oh crap now I get it. Yeah, 1352 01:24:33,660 --> 01:24:39,240 we use pad is heavy pad is is going to be super good when that 1353 01:24:39,240 --> 01:24:42,570 gets into the Umbral, you know, App Store properly. That's so 1354 01:24:42,570 --> 01:24:46,710 so so you're both right, you're both right. You're both right on 1355 01:24:46,710 --> 01:24:51,300 this. Now. I like showing products. I like showing product 1356 01:24:51,300 --> 01:24:54,630 is a great product. It's an outstanding product. Gentlemen, 1357 01:24:54,630 --> 01:24:58,830 shall we thank a few people and then wrap this up so that 1358 01:24:59,430 --> 01:25:02,190 everybody can Get on with their with their with their Christmas 1359 01:25:02,220 --> 01:25:03,210 celebrations. 1360 01:25:04,170 --> 01:25:04,950 Oh yes. 1361 01:25:05,730 --> 01:25:08,700 Let's think people next do that. I hope you I hope that you got 1362 01:25:08,700 --> 01:25:10,770 my my booster Oh 1363 01:25:10,770 --> 01:25:12,060 I got it I got it 1364 01:25:12,060 --> 01:25:15,390 hold on a second dry roll out the single yet Dave is a time. 1365 01:25:15,900 --> 01:25:16,320 Well, 1366 01:25:16,590 --> 01:25:22,620 we can we can start with James cuz he he bet us he bet you a 1367 01:25:22,620 --> 01:25:24,840 million dollars. Hold on 1368 01:25:25,920 --> 01:25:30,840 shot Carla 20 blades. Oh man Paula Yes. 1369 01:25:31,590 --> 01:25:36,060 James bet you a million dollars. Yeah, that and I have I have 1370 01:25:36,060 --> 01:25:42,000 audio proof of this. It is Cridland bet. Jingle 1371 01:25:42,210 --> 01:25:45,930 Oh, you have you have you brought it holy crap. Oh, I 1372 01:25:45,930 --> 01:25:47,760 didn't realize you actually. Okay, here. 1373 01:25:47,790 --> 01:25:51,540 This is record. This is a recording of James at the very 1374 01:25:51,540 --> 01:25:53,550 tail end saying how much he's going to bet 1375 01:25:53,610 --> 01:25:57,990 a million dollar. Yeah, you're right. I remember that. I 1376 01:25:57,990 --> 01:26:01,860 remember exactly that on the episode. 1 million. Now the 1377 01:26:01,890 --> 01:26:08,040 unfortunately it was in that is in a Bitcoin value in 10 years. 1378 01:26:08,040 --> 01:26:10,620 So he's giving me the discounted rate, I believe. 1379 01:26:11,040 --> 01:26:13,140 Oh, I thought it was a million Australian dollars. 1380 01:26:15,870 --> 01:26:18,030 That's about two, what was the Betty? What was the bed about 1381 01:26:18,030 --> 01:26:18,690 James? 1382 01:26:19,410 --> 01:26:22,650 So the bet was that Apple podcasts would launch Apple 1383 01:26:22,650 --> 01:26:26,700 podcasts on Android by the end of 2021. Because they're not 1384 01:26:26,700 --> 01:26:29,520 stupid. And it turns out that they are stupid. 1385 01:26:30,450 --> 01:26:33,690 Now, why have you given up before the end of the year? I 1386 01:26:33,690 --> 01:26:35,730 mean, that couldn't wait one more thing? 1387 01:26:36,180 --> 01:26:39,780 Because I I would doubt that Apple are going to launch 1388 01:26:39,780 --> 01:26:44,910 something that big. I mean, you know, I mean, the BBC launched 1389 01:26:44,910 --> 01:26:48,450 the BBC iPlayer on Christmas Day. So you never know. I mean, 1390 01:26:48,450 --> 01:26:51,810 it could it could happen. But I think no, I'm not. I'm not so 1391 01:26:51,810 --> 01:26:55,980 sure. So yeah, I am absolutely convinced, by the way that they 1392 01:26:55,980 --> 01:26:59,940 are going to do it. And I'm convinced that in probably next 1393 01:26:59,940 --> 01:27:01,860 year, would you like to double down? 1394 01:27:02,309 --> 01:27:05,399 Let me read the note. Let me read the note as Jane and James 1395 01:27:05,399 --> 01:27:08,639 Cridland through the fountain apps in 100,000 SATs. 1396 01:27:08,850 --> 01:27:12,330 That is the correct amount. That is what the bet was? Yes. And he 1397 01:27:12,330 --> 01:27:12,630 says 1398 01:27:12,660 --> 01:27:16,140 so you were right. No Apple podcasts on Android in 2021. 1399 01:27:16,260 --> 01:27:19,050 Same bed again for 2022. Ah, 1400 01:27:19,320 --> 01:27:25,410 well before we discussed that. You posted a you posted a 1401 01:27:25,410 --> 01:27:33,510 picture on podcast index dot social of of your transfer. And 1402 01:27:33,900 --> 01:27:37,620 what was very disappointing James is I saw that the per 1403 01:27:37,620 --> 01:27:43,260 minute value you have podcasting. 2.0 is three sets 1404 01:27:43,260 --> 01:27:43,950 per minute. 1405 01:27:44,610 --> 01:27:47,310 You outed yourself as a cheapskate I mean, you are 1406 01:27:47,310 --> 01:27:47,850 perhaps 1407 01:27:47,850 --> 01:27:51,570 the cheapest, cheapest journalist I've ever met in my 1408 01:27:51,570 --> 01:27:56,280 entire life. I mean, do you really get that little from this 1409 01:27:56,280 --> 01:27:56,820 show? 1410 01:27:58,350 --> 01:28:04,320 To be honest, I've got no idea. Why is that at that level? What 1411 01:28:04,320 --> 01:28:06,510 level should it be set at Adam curry 1412 01:28:06,750 --> 01:28:08,940 mindset at 100? I think that's 1413 01:28:09,540 --> 01:28:13,110 okay, too. Okay, for those of us for those of us that aren't, you 1414 01:28:13,110 --> 01:28:16,740 know, for those of us that didn't spend billions of dollars 1415 01:28:16,740 --> 01:28:22,410 in the 1990s on on on a helicopter fuel? What would be 1416 01:28:22,950 --> 01:28:27,660 be that sensible? Number of sets? 100? 1417 01:28:29,250 --> 01:28:31,710 Yeah, what do you say? What do you have Dave? 33 1418 01:28:31,860 --> 01:28:36,060 None man set at 50 Typically, but then on on the down jacket 1419 01:28:36,330 --> 01:28:37,290 100 For 1420 01:28:37,320 --> 01:28:41,070 podcasts live but you but you you boost extraordinary amounts. 1421 01:28:41,610 --> 01:28:44,700 I do it. This is the beauty of it. Everyone can set it to what 1422 01:28:44,700 --> 01:28:47,790 they want. And I just presume that day really is like you see, 1423 01:28:47,790 --> 01:28:51,060 nobody should show you know, well, I've seen those three sets 1424 01:28:51,060 --> 01:28:53,160 come in. So I know you're listening. 1425 01:28:54,000 --> 01:28:57,600 But nobody, but nobody knows what other people have set them 1426 01:28:57,600 --> 01:28:58,710 to. That's the thing. 1427 01:28:58,980 --> 01:29:03,930 Yeah, but you've doxxed yourself in the worst possible way. You 1428 01:29:04,710 --> 01:29:07,350 know, I know. Yeah, you should do. Everyone should have it. 1429 01:29:07,410 --> 01:29:10,080 Like I'm gonna set mine to a custom number. I'm gonna set it 1430 01:29:10,080 --> 01:29:14,460 to 67 now, because that is a number. Yeah, that's the number 1431 01:29:14,460 --> 01:29:16,620 of this Everyone knows that. It's me that's listening. 1432 01:29:17,219 --> 01:29:20,459 By the way, James you referred to I think it was on pod land. 1433 01:29:20,459 --> 01:29:23,879 You referred to the podcasting 2.0 community as the task force, 1434 01:29:24,389 --> 01:29:28,319 I guess in 2.0 Task Force. I forgotten that. I actually 1435 01:29:28,649 --> 01:29:31,079 prefer this the the term strike team 1436 01:29:33,540 --> 01:29:35,280 that means something very different in France. 1437 01:29:38,310 --> 01:29:40,530 Okay, let's see who we got. Oh, 1438 01:29:40,530 --> 01:29:43,590 wait, so are we doubling down you want to do a another for 1439 01:29:43,590 --> 01:29:44,550 next year James? 1440 01:29:45,360 --> 01:29:48,930 Oh, we couldn't we can we can. Yeah, we can do that. Again for 1441 01:29:48,930 --> 01:29:51,120 next year. If you like what does doubling down mean? Does that 1442 01:29:51,120 --> 01:29:53,040 mean? I'm not a betting man. Does that mean does that mean? 1443 01:29:53,040 --> 01:29:53,850 It's now 200 1444 01:29:53,880 --> 01:30:00,660 You're going to lose twice as much is what that means? I think 1445 01:30:00,690 --> 01:30:04,530 let's, let's let's in at the end of next year, Dave, you'll be 1446 01:30:04,530 --> 01:30:08,670 our witness. I think we did 100,000 SATs I think cuz I 1447 01:30:08,670 --> 01:30:11,250 reserve this amount. I think we should do a million SATs. 1448 01:30:12,150 --> 01:30:15,030 Whoa, what even is a million set 1449 01:30:15,060 --> 01:30:20,520 today? 400 bucks. 1450 01:30:20,760 --> 01:30:24,120 That's right. That's a that's a bad one that makes you do it. It 1451 01:30:24,120 --> 01:30:27,030 says What if What if bitcoin goes to 200,000? Then Then 1452 01:30:27,030 --> 01:30:28,170 you're gonna go? No, 1453 01:30:28,200 --> 01:30:31,560 I'll be. I'll be I'll be extremely happy that I made my 1454 01:30:31,560 --> 01:30:35,040 friend James Cridland know if he wins, I'd be very happy but 1455 01:30:35,040 --> 01:30:38,190 like, holy crap, man. I'm giving you a million SATs. That was 400 1456 01:30:38,190 --> 01:30:41,730 bucks now it's 40,000. Congratulations. I just paid for 1457 01:30:41,730 --> 01:30:43,740 your extension. We're gonna 1458 01:30:43,740 --> 01:30:50,340 do 200,000 sets. Okay. 200,000 sets shaves. You say Holy crap. 1459 01:30:50,580 --> 01:30:53,610 I've already signed my name is done. You can tell them as a way 1460 01:30:53,610 --> 01:30:57,090 to tell you so those kids in the house so Okay, yeah. If anybody 1461 01:30:57,090 --> 01:30:57,270 from 1462 01:30:57,270 --> 01:30:59,520 Apple is listening, and they wouldn't mind giving me a little 1463 01:30:59,520 --> 01:31:04,980 bit of emojis would be good if anybody was listening. Thanks, 1464 01:31:04,980 --> 01:31:08,670 James. Your your your stand up guy. I appreciate you. Coming 1465 01:31:08,670 --> 01:31:09,480 through on that bet. 1466 01:31:11,550 --> 01:31:16,830 John Shijie sent us 2000 sets and he's from CAST ematic and he 1467 01:31:16,830 --> 01:31:20,160 says boosting from CAST ematic whilst I'm writing an article 1468 01:31:20,160 --> 01:31:23,820 about boosting from CAST ematic Love Your Work guys keep it up. 1469 01:31:24,750 --> 01:31:32,220 Boost boost that one cracks me up okay at some of that didn't I 1470 01:31:32,220 --> 01:31:34,590 did not print out all of these so I'm actually reading them off 1471 01:31:34,590 --> 01:31:39,360 the screen which gives me the crave but today oh rush boost. 1472 01:31:39,960 --> 01:31:44,370 From Harry pilgrims through breeze app. He sent 2112 And he 1473 01:31:44,370 --> 01:31:47,580 says if you choose not to decide you still have made a choice 1474 01:31:47,580 --> 01:31:50,760 free will boost from Harry pilgrim that those are lyrics 1475 01:31:50,790 --> 01:31:52,110 from a rush song. Ooh, 1476 01:31:52,140 --> 01:31:53,430 by the way, very nice. 1477 01:31:55,950 --> 01:32:00,360 See, sir Spencer gave us 12,345 SATs. 1478 01:32:00,390 --> 01:32:01,680 Ooh, nice. 1479 01:32:01,889 --> 01:32:04,679 Yeah through fountain and he says it's busy times for 1480 01:32:04,679 --> 01:32:07,949 podcasting 2.0 stuff. We now have a working raspy blitz 1481 01:32:07,979 --> 01:32:11,939 installation script for Dave's heli pad app. Hey, nice. Thanks 1482 01:32:11,939 --> 01:32:16,199 to the help testing and fixing from C Dubs and Abel Kirby and I 1483 01:32:16,199 --> 01:32:19,379 are launching our value for value album in one week on 1484 01:32:19,379 --> 01:32:20,249 Christmas Eve 1485 01:32:20,280 --> 01:32:24,660 Yeah, this thing is going to be they've some screenshots of the 1486 01:32:24,660 --> 01:32:27,810 mixer the mix down whatever they're doing, and it's gonna be 1487 01:32:27,810 --> 01:32:31,860 like a million trillion gigabytes of shit. I can't wait. 1488 01:32:32,610 --> 01:32:35,310 I can't wait. I'll be boosting that one man. 1489 01:32:36,090 --> 01:32:38,910 Just waiting for those medium and live tags to drop and then 1490 01:32:38,910 --> 01:32:42,150 we can water SE and then the water will really be churning. 1491 01:32:42,150 --> 01:32:43,110 Go podcasting. 1492 01:32:43,140 --> 01:32:45,900 Yes. Oh, yeah. Where's my jingle? 1493 01:32:48,150 --> 01:32:52,800 James, do you have any interest whatsoever in the live tag? 1494 01:32:55,620 --> 01:32:59,910 Me personally, I'm not sure that I do because I know full well. 1495 01:32:59,940 --> 01:33:02,640 Every LIVE TAG is going to be live at three o'clock in the 1496 01:33:02,640 --> 01:33:09,180 morning. Yes, thanks. Australian timezones. But, but I can see 1497 01:33:09,180 --> 01:33:12,060 it, I can see it being useful. You know, I mean, there are some 1498 01:33:12,060 --> 01:33:14,430 times when I'm up and I would like to see you to watch for 1499 01:33:14,430 --> 01:33:18,360 example, the new media show so I can tell Todd and Rob when I 1500 01:33:18,360 --> 01:33:22,140 think so. Yeah. Yeah, I can see that. 1501 01:33:23,190 --> 01:33:28,800 Chad Pharaoh's and his 3333 sets through fountain he says Thanks 1502 01:33:28,800 --> 01:33:31,380 for the kind words. Well, you're welcome. Very nice. 1503 01:33:31,380 --> 01:33:33,480 Thank you, man. Always there. 1504 01:33:33,870 --> 01:33:40,080 Yep. Oh, Harry Duran from podcast junkies. Huh. He's he 1505 01:33:40,080 --> 01:33:45,360 found he sent us out through 1111 SATs through fountain he 1506 01:33:45,360 --> 01:33:48,150 says I can't think of a more perfect example of value for 1507 01:33:48,150 --> 01:33:51,870 value than this explanation of the 4.6 million podcasts in a 1508 01:33:51,870 --> 01:33:54,390 way that makes sense. Yeah, up the great work. Dave and Adam 1509 01:33:54,510 --> 01:33:55,770 curry from podcast junkies 1510 01:33:56,190 --> 01:33:58,560 was a dynamite explanation boost. 1511 01:33:59,400 --> 01:34:04,140 Yeah, he has got so behind value for value as well. Harry, he's, 1512 01:34:04,410 --> 01:34:07,110 he's a great guy. I've met him a number of times. He's just got 1513 01:34:07,110 --> 01:34:09,840 so behind it. So really, really good to see him getting there. 1514 01:34:10,320 --> 01:34:12,960 Yes, I was hearing him. He intros his show with a two. 1515 01:34:12,990 --> 01:34:19,050 Yeah, he's in there. Chad Farrow again. Give us 3333 sets and he 1516 01:34:19,050 --> 01:34:23,280 says love the JCD boost boost boost jingle boost boost boost. 1517 01:34:24,930 --> 01:34:28,170 I tricked him into doing that. Did you kind of 1518 01:34:29,700 --> 01:34:34,980 you egged him on until he broke he doesn't know. Let's see Harry 1519 01:34:34,980 --> 01:34:41,130 Duran again. Repeat customer 3333 sets and he says just got 1520 01:34:41,130 --> 01:34:44,250 inspired by the bus jingle. Hopefully this is enough to ask 1521 01:34:44,250 --> 01:34:47,760 Adam to invent a promo for podcast junkies on the spot. Go 1522 01:34:47,760 --> 01:34:52,470 podcasting. Ooh. If you listen to podcast junkies, no, 1523 01:34:52,470 --> 01:34:55,560 I think I think Wait, hang on. I've been on podcast junk. I 1524 01:34:55,560 --> 01:34:57,630 think I have to listen to it before I can do that before I 1525 01:34:57,630 --> 01:35:00,660 can do a jingle. Okay, all right. Well I need I need some 1526 01:35:00,660 --> 01:35:03,960 creative direction. Could you guys boost us some creative 1527 01:35:03,960 --> 01:35:04,590 direction? 1528 01:35:05,040 --> 01:35:08,490 Yes. Yes, that needs to we will return to this. 1529 01:35:08,520 --> 01:35:11,940 Yes, I want to do that. But you know, people are asking for this 1530 01:35:11,940 --> 01:35:16,140 now and, you know, it's all gonna sound the same. If I just 1531 01:35:16,140 --> 01:35:16,920 do it on the fly. 1532 01:35:17,670 --> 01:35:21,870 Yeah, I will bring actually had a clip of Harry Duran and I'll 1533 01:35:21,870 --> 01:35:23,340 bring that next time. Good 1534 01:35:23,490 --> 01:35:25,680 guy wants some creative direction from them to some 1535 01:35:25,680 --> 01:35:28,890 input. All right. This is kind of like a podcast version of 1536 01:35:28,890 --> 01:35:31,860 cameo. Cameo app. 1537 01:35:33,030 --> 01:35:34,650 I don't I don't know what candy Oh, well. 1538 01:35:34,650 --> 01:35:38,340 You can pay like $1,000 and Snoop Dogg will do a video 1539 01:35:38,340 --> 01:35:41,520 message for you. Okay, they tried to get me to do that 1540 01:35:41,520 --> 01:35:43,500 several times. Like now I won't do that. 1541 01:35:43,889 --> 01:35:47,069 When you first set it. The thing I envisioned in my head was the 1542 01:35:47,069 --> 01:35:49,319 masked singer. That stupid show. 1543 01:35:50,370 --> 01:35:52,800 Oh, goodness, the masking Yeah, the masking. 1544 01:35:53,640 --> 01:35:56,640 I was thinking about what up was yeah, that's with 1545 01:35:57,540 --> 01:36:00,540 the car. Yeah, that's what I thought of the red pants 1546 01:36:00,570 --> 01:36:01,710 codpiece. Right 1547 01:36:01,710 --> 01:36:03,510 right up there alongside bucks phase. 1548 01:36:03,570 --> 01:36:06,690 Yeah, that's why we know so well. Yeah. 1549 01:36:06,870 --> 01:36:10,950 Was the shot shocks. Some was it other band you referenced? 1550 01:36:11,490 --> 01:36:14,070 shock? Shock this something 1551 01:36:15,210 --> 01:36:16,680 that happened Demas and pliers. 1552 01:36:17,910 --> 01:36:25,260 That's it. That's it. Chicago. Yeah. 49 see, John's BRT gave us 1553 01:36:25,260 --> 01:36:30,090 4949 sets the the fountain app una says recently went over a 1554 01:36:30,090 --> 01:36:33,390 million Sasa support using the fountain app, go podcasting. 1555 01:36:33,420 --> 01:36:37,890 Beautiful. I say go John's BRT. 1556 01:36:38,130 --> 01:36:39,000 Yeah, real. 1557 01:36:39,690 --> 01:36:46,860 Thank you, man. Peter gave us 3333 sets in his messages. Pew 1558 01:36:46,860 --> 01:36:47,370 pew. 1559 01:36:47,790 --> 01:36:52,440 Oh, hold on a second. I don't I don't have that one handy, but 1560 01:36:52,440 --> 01:36:55,950 it is like what I should because it's the official sound of the 1561 01:36:55,950 --> 01:36:58,680 helipad. It needs to go into Rotation here. 1562 01:36:59,580 --> 01:37:04,440 It was It cracked me up when in right now. Luke from from the 1563 01:37:04,440 --> 01:37:07,380 Umbral it was we're chatting on telegram and the pew pew hit and 1564 01:37:07,380 --> 01:37:08,220 he was like whoa, 1565 01:37:09,120 --> 01:37:11,160 what the hell? That thing's really cool man. 1566 01:37:12,840 --> 01:37:16,620 Cast pillon gave us 33 SATs through the fountain app and he 1567 01:37:16,620 --> 01:37:20,550 says boost Chris Fisher. Oh yeah. Yep. Chris is the guy that 1568 01:37:20,730 --> 01:37:22,770 from Kota radio and Jupiter broadcasting. 1569 01:37:24,990 --> 01:37:26,790 Okay, have it in the system now. Pew. 1570 01:37:27,300 --> 01:37:32,670 Nice setup. CASS gave us another 33 SATs it says boost Chris. 1571 01:37:32,880 --> 01:37:34,890 Okay. Boosts Yeah, we can do that. 1572 01:37:35,400 --> 01:37:41,850 Boost. See 2000 SATs front. Ooh, this is Anonymous. Anonymous 1573 01:37:41,850 --> 01:37:45,270 through breeze. Add to that 1000 says I don't understand this 1574 01:37:45,270 --> 01:37:51,600 message. It's just says based period. Or if you're British, 1575 01:37:51,780 --> 01:38:00,270 full stop. Did I get that right? Is it full of sounds? That 1576 01:38:00,270 --> 01:38:03,120 was excellent. Excellent punctuation there. Yes. Very 1577 01:38:03,120 --> 01:38:03,270 good. 1578 01:38:03,300 --> 01:38:06,570 Thank you. All right. I mean, I am asking the vendors of it. You 1579 01:38:06,570 --> 01:38:07,800 know, the English language by 1580 01:38:07,800 --> 01:38:12,450 the way. I should. I should also say that Dave, Dave Jackson got 1581 01:38:12,450 --> 01:38:15,510 in touch with me and said where are all of these boosts jingles. 1582 01:38:15,870 --> 01:38:17,940 And they are available on GitHub, but they're not on the 1583 01:38:17,940 --> 01:38:20,310 podcast index. GitHub. Are there. Is there a child? Is 1584 01:38:20,310 --> 01:38:21,900 there a chance of getting them in there as well? 1585 01:38:22,890 --> 01:38:25,530 Yeah, we could. We could fork that over. Yeah, sure. Huh. 1586 01:38:26,100 --> 01:38:28,350 I think that'd be handy because nobody can find them. And I'm 1587 01:38:28,350 --> 01:38:31,440 there. I'm there. Finally. Yeah, I covered it. Always. 1588 01:38:31,620 --> 01:38:35,460 Always have a link in the show notes. Every single show notes. 1589 01:38:35,670 --> 01:38:40,980 Episode has a link to the boost bait. And that's that's the 1590 01:38:40,980 --> 01:38:42,600 direct link. Yeah, 1591 01:38:42,690 --> 01:38:49,890 yeah. I'm making a note to fork that over. And let's see. Uh, 1592 01:38:49,890 --> 01:38:51,960 last month Oh, here it is. Oh, Mere Mortals. 1593 01:38:51,990 --> 01:38:54,330 This is a productive board meeting. Oh, yeah. 1594 01:38:54,360 --> 01:38:58,860 It is. what it's all about. It's this is the part we love. 1595 01:38:59,220 --> 01:39:07,350 Yes. Mere Mortals. Karen. He gave us 11,234 SAS sorry, 1596 01:39:07,950 --> 01:39:12,690 students 35 sets to fountain he says wow the video playing on 1597 01:39:12,690 --> 01:39:16,410 podcast guru was amazing very very cool. I created a clips 1598 01:39:16,410 --> 01:39:20,040 channel searchable under mere mortals three speak and it works 1599 01:39:20,040 --> 01:39:23,520 perfectly there. Merry Christmas to all of podcasting 2.0 1600 01:39:23,610 --> 01:39:25,560 Ah, Merry Christmas to you 1601 01:39:28,260 --> 01:39:32,070 such good guys. Oh I do want to make before we get out of here 1602 01:39:32,070 --> 01:39:34,920 do you want to make fun of NF T's real quick after we finish 1603 01:39:34,920 --> 01:39:35,160 this 1604 01:39:35,280 --> 01:39:38,070 no I want to leave on a high note I want to I want it to be a 1605 01:39:38,070 --> 01:39:39,930 good ending. Let's be positive Dave 1606 01:39:39,960 --> 01:39:43,980 positive. I'm making fun of Venus teases hilarious 1607 01:39:45,240 --> 01:39:48,270 no because all right just pollutes the timeline comics you 1608 01:39:48,270 --> 01:39:51,810 bloggers gonna post and he's gonna tell us we're stupid. 1609 01:39:52,769 --> 01:39:57,119 make a joke about it about you getting no flipping thing? Yes. 1610 01:39:58,890 --> 01:40:01,680 He'll do a car too. It's not worth the aggro. 1611 01:40:02,160 --> 01:40:06,810 Okay, fine. We'll make fun of it next week. There you go. Cast 1612 01:40:06,810 --> 01:40:11,940 Pilant. Again 3267. SAS the the fountain app and he says, Love 1613 01:40:11,940 --> 01:40:17,400 to test IPFS stuff. Yeah, I'm on IPFS since 2016 When BT sync, 1614 01:40:18,090 --> 01:40:26,100 left no agenda check out Open. Open hooft.nl o n o ofd. 1615 01:40:26,189 --> 01:40:30,929 Yeah. Open host means open head for some reason. Open hoeft dot 1616 01:40:31,769 --> 01:40:35,159 open hosts open Host. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, I know who he 1617 01:40:35,159 --> 01:40:39,899 is. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm looking forward to some IPFS in 1618 01:40:39,899 --> 01:40:41,429 the in the coming years. Well, 1619 01:40:42,419 --> 01:40:50,849 yeah, me too. Oh, 5555 sets. I get that a sack of fives. I 1620 01:40:50,849 --> 01:40:54,659 don't know what what's special about the 5555. That's the 1621 01:40:54,659 --> 01:40:59,849 breeze and Satoshi string. Oh, this may be from Satoshi stream, 1622 01:41:00,269 --> 01:41:04,049 says Satoshi stream now used by 250 podcasts. 1623 01:41:04,080 --> 01:41:07,020 Ooh. dynamize. That stream. Did you go? 1624 01:41:07,559 --> 01:41:12,359 That's a good stat. And Brian mozzie. Is that right? Brian? 1625 01:41:12,449 --> 01:41:17,249 Yeah, that's Brian. He sent us 11,722 SATs through fountain. He 1626 01:41:17,249 --> 01:41:20,669 says Same reason I'm always boosting lately. New timestamp. 1627 01:41:20,939 --> 01:41:26,969 One hour, 17 minutes and 22 seconds. I don't know what that 1628 01:41:26,969 --> 01:41:33,509 is to look it up. I came on prepared for this. Okay, so la 1629 01:41:33,509 --> 01:41:38,759 nomics. Oh, that's the under the bus jingle that you did. 16 is a 1630 01:41:38,759 --> 01:41:42,929 1666. SAS the fountain. He says, Hey, Adam and Dave, thanks for 1631 01:41:42,929 --> 01:41:43,949 the under the bus jingle. 1632 01:41:44,070 --> 01:41:45,420 You're relevant. Yeah, we 1633 01:41:45,420 --> 01:41:46,830 said we love it. Thank you. Well, thank 1634 01:41:46,830 --> 01:41:50,760 you for the tip. You didn't have to thank me for that. You 1635 01:41:50,760 --> 01:41:52,380 already paid with a boost previously? 1636 01:41:52,620 --> 01:41:57,690 That's true. He paid in events. Yeah, we wanted. Okay, we wanted 1637 01:41:57,690 --> 01:42:01,050 a Dutch cockney accent that maybe that would have been too 1638 01:42:01,050 --> 01:42:03,480 much. Dutch cockney. 1639 01:42:03,540 --> 01:42:04,590 I don't think I can do that. 1640 01:42:05,250 --> 01:42:06,450 What is it? Is that a thing? 1641 01:42:06,719 --> 01:42:10,379 I know I don't think this is James and I had a love child 1642 01:42:10,409 --> 01:42:12,539 then maybe we could check that but 1643 01:42:13,980 --> 01:42:17,610 James, do you have what would be considered a Cockney accent? No. 1644 01:42:17,820 --> 01:42:22,230 I have a very boring BBC received pronunciation is what 1645 01:42:22,230 --> 01:42:23,850 is called. Yes, I'm afraid. 1646 01:42:24,269 --> 01:42:26,729 No. Okay. Well, I mean, I don't know what an example of a 1647 01:42:26,729 --> 01:42:30,119 Cockney accent would be but I can find it 1648 01:42:30,120 --> 01:42:33,480 is cool. Blimey cough. Have you watched Mary Poppins? 1649 01:42:34,560 --> 01:42:37,950 Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay, yeah, that's basically it. How 1650 01:42:37,950 --> 01:42:40,740 would you how you would How would you possibly merge that 1651 01:42:40,740 --> 01:42:43,920 with a Dutch accent? I have no idea that this is impossible. 1652 01:42:44,940 --> 01:42:47,970 Accounting, I sent you an anonymous 5k Set boost from 1653 01:42:47,970 --> 01:42:51,570 breeze a further 1666 from fountain to reach the 10,000 1654 01:42:51,570 --> 01:42:54,990 total Mark notice just had to figure out how to split the 1655 01:42:54,990 --> 01:42:59,940 bill. No, not figure out the split bit. That's what he said. 1656 01:43:00,300 --> 01:43:02,850 This proves beyond doubt podcasting podcasting. 2.0 1657 01:43:02,850 --> 01:43:04,920 works. Happy Christmas. Erin. 1658 01:43:10,170 --> 01:43:13,380 Airy Duran follows it up with another one a second ones? And 1659 01:43:13,380 --> 01:43:16,350 he says, heard you mentioned James as next week's guest. 1660 01:43:16,440 --> 01:43:19,800 Well, it's this week's guest actually, imagine if hosts a 1661 01:43:20,190 --> 01:43:23,550 vote. Want to ask James a question. Who's now read out the 1662 01:43:23,550 --> 01:43:27,960 highest boosts first Andy How you doing booster? Exactly. Mind 1663 01:43:27,960 --> 01:43:35,790 blown Harry from podcast junkies echo. Yep. See, I think we had a 1664 01:43:37,170 --> 01:43:43,740 PAL is well, or thought we did think we had good. Oh, yeah, 1665 01:43:43,770 --> 01:43:47,220 yeah, we did. We got some we got a couple months here is a short 1666 01:43:47,220 --> 01:43:50,310 is short time period. So we didn't have much, but we get an 1667 01:43:50,310 --> 01:43:57,930 anonymous $25 PayPal. Thank you anonymous survey of ash gave us 1668 01:43:57,930 --> 01:44:02,700 $5 Keith gifts and gave us $25 Thank you, Keith, you rock 1669 01:44:02,700 --> 01:44:06,150 steady every month. I appreciate it. Duane Goldie gave us $8 And 1670 01:44:06,150 --> 01:44:09,630 Paul Erskine gave us $11.14 1671 01:44:09,690 --> 01:44:14,970 And we thank everybody for supporting podcasting 2.0 the 1672 01:44:14,970 --> 01:44:19,500 podcast but the entire project it goes straight into liquidity 1673 01:44:19,500 --> 01:44:24,180 for the node it goes into. Well, of course part of it goes to t 1674 01:44:24,180 --> 01:44:28,560 shirt T shirts. We we all do like the T shirts. But it really 1675 01:44:28,560 --> 01:44:31,530 keeps the infrastructure running and We highly appreciate it go 1676 01:44:31,530 --> 01:44:34,650 to podcast index.org. At the bottom there's a Donate button 1677 01:44:34,650 --> 01:44:38,760 where we finally have I think a service we can get a QR code to 1678 01:44:38,760 --> 01:44:44,880 scan for one off donations. But above all, if you can boost we 1679 01:44:44,880 --> 01:44:50,700 want to get your boost, boost boost and a portion of today's 1680 01:44:50,700 --> 01:44:56,100 show we'll also go to our guest James Cridland. We will assign a 1681 01:44:56,100 --> 01:45:01,230 33% splits and said you know you were definitely third, a third 1682 01:45:01,230 --> 01:45:03,960 of the whole system here. Yeah, we really appreciate it. And 1683 01:45:03,960 --> 01:45:07,290 thanks for a great year. James, I look forward to oh, there's my 1684 01:45:07,290 --> 01:45:11,160 dinner ready. Look forward to all of the trouble we're going 1685 01:45:11,160 --> 01:45:13,200 to get into and all the arguments and good things that 1686 01:45:13,200 --> 01:45:14,730 will come out of the coming year. 1687 01:45:15,240 --> 01:45:18,510 Yeah, I look forward to it, too. Thank you so much for everything 1688 01:45:18,510 --> 01:45:21,870 that you've done for podcasting, both in the dim and distant past 1689 01:45:21,870 --> 01:45:25,560 and over the last year as well. So thank you. Thank you very 1690 01:45:25,560 --> 01:45:25,950 much. 1691 01:45:26,010 --> 01:45:28,620 That was yeah, that was great. Thanks, James. I appreciate it. 1692 01:45:28,620 --> 01:45:30,510 Well, I'm looking forward to this. You know, I'm looking 1693 01:45:30,510 --> 01:45:34,470 forward to the next year. And what what's one thing that you 1694 01:45:34,470 --> 01:45:37,470 think just kind of lead us out a little bit? What is one thing 1695 01:45:37,470 --> 01:45:41,280 that you think that you are the most excited about as far as 1696 01:45:41,670 --> 01:45:44,460 anything to do with the namespace or podcasting to put 1697 01:45:44,460 --> 01:45:47,490 out? What's your big, what's your big hope for 2022? 1698 01:45:47,850 --> 01:45:50,130 I think I've got a couple. I think one of the big hopes is 1699 01:45:50,130 --> 01:45:53,940 that the podcast transcript tag is pretty well, universally 1700 01:45:53,940 --> 01:45:59,220 token taken up, it'll be good for creators, because we would 1701 01:45:59,220 --> 01:46:03,300 be able to control what our transcript said, but also good 1702 01:46:03,300 --> 01:46:05,460 for, you know, good for everybody good for 1703 01:46:05,460 --> 01:46:08,460 accessibility, good for podcast apps, everything else. So I 1704 01:46:08,460 --> 01:46:11,820 think that that would be, that's the kind of the low hanging 1705 01:46:11,820 --> 01:46:16,890 fruit. And I would hope that more people, one of the things 1706 01:46:16,890 --> 01:46:20,490 that concerns me a little bit about booster grams and value 1707 01:46:20,490 --> 01:46:25,620 for value is that there are some people who are using it. But it 1708 01:46:25,620 --> 01:46:29,130 doesn't necessarily feel to me as if it's growing that much. 1709 01:46:29,220 --> 01:46:34,020 And it doesn't necessarily feel to me as if it's breaking 1710 01:46:34,020 --> 01:46:39,390 through to new people that aren't already into this sort of 1711 01:46:39,390 --> 01:46:44,100 things. So I would really like to see much more of that in 1712 01:46:44,460 --> 01:46:49,260 2022, of actually, you know, seeing different names in the 1713 01:46:49,260 --> 01:46:54,180 histogram list of seeing more people being involved. And I 1714 01:46:54,180 --> 01:46:58,680 think, you know, helping as many podcasts be into, you know, 1715 01:46:58,680 --> 01:47:01,680 value for value is, I think, a really good thing. And that goes 1716 01:47:01,680 --> 01:47:05,790 for both the technical side, but I think it also goes for the, 1717 01:47:06,090 --> 01:47:10,380 you know, just the, the sight of well, what is it that you say in 1718 01:47:10,380 --> 01:47:14,550 your podcast? Should you do a boost gram corner, the reason I 1719 01:47:14,550 --> 01:47:17,670 do a booster gram corner is that I know social proof that it 1720 01:47:17,670 --> 01:47:23,610 actually will mean that you get more boosts. And so you know, if 1721 01:47:23,610 --> 01:47:28,050 we if we can get more of that, more of that help next year, I 1722 01:47:28,050 --> 01:47:32,640 think that's super exciting. Because anything that offers an 1723 01:47:32,640 --> 01:47:36,000 alternative. It's not necessarily the end of 1724 01:47:36,000 --> 01:47:40,410 advertising, but it's an alternative to advertising. I 1725 01:47:40,410 --> 01:47:44,610 think that to me, is a really good thing for the health of the 1726 01:47:44,610 --> 01:47:48,810 industry, and frankly, the health of people as a whole. So 1727 01:47:48,840 --> 01:47:50,910 you know, super excited as to where that might go. 1728 01:47:51,750 --> 01:47:54,840 Awesome. Well, thanks for being on the show, man. It was just 1729 01:47:54,870 --> 01:47:57,420 it's been great working with you for the last year and a half or 1730 01:47:57,990 --> 01:48:00,450 however long it's been at this point. I'm I'm losing track of 1731 01:48:00,450 --> 01:48:05,040 time, but I'm good, Adam. Merry Christmas, James. Merry 1732 01:48:05,040 --> 01:48:05,550 Christmas. 1733 01:48:06,330 --> 01:48:09,420 Indeed. And Happy Christmas to you. And I look forward to 1734 01:48:09,720 --> 01:48:12,420 hopefully seeing you in the US at some point next year. 1735 01:48:12,720 --> 01:48:13,710 Yeah, that would be great. 1736 01:48:13,890 --> 01:48:17,850 Thank you again, James. That'll do it for the board meeting. The 1737 01:48:17,850 --> 01:48:21,660 pre Christmas board meeting of podcasting. 2.01 more before the 1738 01:48:21,660 --> 01:48:24,120 end of the year. Have a very Merry Christmas everybody. We'll 1739 01:48:24,120 --> 01:48:24,570 see you next 1740 01:48:24,570 --> 01:48:44,010 week. You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast 1741 01:48:44,040 --> 01:48:49,380 index.org for more information. Boost boost